Where is G-d? If the Torah is really the laws of the Creator why don’t we see him actively punishing wrong doers and sinners?

At the end of last weeks Torah portion the Jews fell into the horrible sin of worshiping the idol Baal Peor. The purpose of its worship was to express the idea that there are no laws or values which one is obligated or required to follow. Consequently the more degrading and repulsive one can act, the greater the worship. The devotion was therefore performed by defecating before the idol, and the message was clear: there is no G-d, don’t you see I can do whatever I want and G-d doesn’t care, if there really was a G-d he would act in response and punish me for my indignation.

In truth, at the foundation of Judaism lies the exact opposite idea: it is precisely G-d’s powerful patience and unrelenting mercy which reveals His divine and noble character. Even while a person is sinning G-d sustains and supports them, bearing their sin with compassion and patiently waiting for them to return to Him in true repentance. The great 16th century kabbalist, Rabbi Moshe Cordovo in his sefer Tomer Devorah explains that the essence of man’s duty in this world is that he emulates his Creator by acting with patience, mercy and an endless flow of goodness even towards those who offend him.

The fact the G-d does not react to our sins should bring us even closer to him, not cause us to deny his existence. His tolerance and clemency is an expression of His tremendous love and even a greater reason for us to be grateful and long to come close to Him.

By taking zealous action and performing the commandment of slaughtering those in an indecent and immoral act, Pinchas retuned G-d’s lost honor and revealed G-d’s forgotten presence.

Application:
Give 10 quick answers to the following sentence stems:
G-d is kind to me even though I …
G-d doesn’t want to punish me because…

To learn more about Baal Peor please see Idol worship today

Nice one Rabbi.

G-d must be very patient. What drives me nuts is how the Yetzer Hara (don't know if that's the correct spelling) grows in tandem with us as we grow spiritually. Is it possible to conquer the evil inclination? If anything I thought that we should over time be able to overcome certain 'character flaws'(the evil inclination).

Then again I guess it's that same inclination that keeps us in check, forcing us to work harder to acheive a higher level of spititual growth and connection to the big guy.

I'll thank G-d for his patience this Shabbat.

e.

B"H

"The greater the man, the greater his evil-inclination."

כל הגדול מחבירו, יצרו גדול הימנו

hi rabbi
i can understand why G-D out of murcy would not react to some of our sins, but what happens when a person sins and in his/her sin hurts other people, and G-D apears not to react, mercy for the sinner, but not for his/her victims?

A person can only decide to do something which affects someone else if it is pre-ordained that the other person should suffer. However if the other person should not suffer then with your free choice you cant harm them. If so you might ask if it is pre-ordained why are you being punished for doing something which was supposed to happen anyway. One of the easier answers which we can undertsand is that while it is pre-ordained that the person should suffer it is not pre-ordained who should make him suffer and by you coming along and deciding to make him suffer for that you get punished.

This answers your question as Hashem plans out every thing and there is no such a thing as harm coming to a person who does not deserve it. True we might not see the benifit and while something bad happens to us it is sometimes hard to accept that it is for our good. But that is how it is.

hi yossismith
i understand what your saying, but what about job, did he deserve his pain and suffering, blameless and upright says the tanakh.
what of inocent children who suffer, is that also ordained by G-D, isnt G-D supposed to be good?

G-d is good. Even if we don't understand it. This is a basic tenet in Jewish faith.

I think the same can be applied to sick children. There was a eighteen year-old girl who died very suddenly in my seminary this year--a terrible tragedy. But I think what comes out of that is the fact that this girl only needed eighteen years to complete her mission on this earth.

So in conclusion, I don't think we are supposed to understand G-d's ways, but only to know He is good. I've heard it compared to a tapestry--looking at the back of the tapestry, it looks quite messy, with no rhyme or reason to the crossed stiching. But then turn it over. And you see a beautiful tapestry, full of all different colors and shapes--and then you understand. So too the way it is with G-d. We only see the back, but G-d knows it's beautiful. We only have to believe.

quote:

Originally posted by YossiSmith:
A person can only decide to do something which affects someone else if it is pre-ordained that the other person should suffer. However if the other person should not suffer then with your free choice you cant harm them.

This answers your question as Hashem plans out every thing and there is no such a thing as harm coming to a person who does not deserve it.

Not all Jewish sources are in agreement with this. The Ramban for example asks why were the Egyptians punished for what they did to the Jewish people if this was what God decreed should happen to them.

He answers that the Egyptians went further and did more evil to the Jews than what had been decreed. So we see from this opinion that it is possible for a person to do harm to you even if you were not deserving.

Quote "Not all Jewish sources are in agreement with this. The Ramban for example asks why were the Egyptians punished for what they did to the Jewish people if this was what God decreed should happen to them.

He answers that the Egyptians went further and did more evil to the Jews than what had been decreed. So we see from this opinion that it is possible for a person to do harm to you even if you were not deserving"

Who said they're not deserving. It just wasn't in the original decree that they could claim that they were just following Hashem's orders. If this wasn't so, we can exempt everyone from harming others (to even those that hold definitely you can't harm others without Hashem decreeing) since they couldn't harm them without them deserving it.

The simple distinction is that his punishment will come around whether you do anything or not. If he's not deserving, then your efforts wouldn't do anything. So your getting punished for your effort and not necessary for what it will result (though we always say that Hashem is Migalgel Chov AL Yedai Chaiyiv (that he brings about bad things by the hands of the bad))

quote:

Originally posted by Rav Chaim:

Who said they're not deserving. It just wasn't in the original decree that they could claim that they were just following Hashem's orders. If this wasn't so, we can exempt everyone from harming others (to even those that hold definitely you can't harm others without Hashem decreeing) since they couldn't harm them without them deserving it.

The simple distinction is that his punishment will come around whether you do anything or not. If he's not deserving, then your efforts wouldn't do anything.

I am assuming you did not read the Ramban, because he is clearly not going along with your novel interpretation of his words.

Here is a quote from that Ramban (translation by Artscroll Mesorah):
"For he added to God's original decree AND maltreated the Israelites more than they DESERVED."

Quote "I am assuming you did not read the Ramban, because he is clearly not going along with your novel interpretation of his words."

Well, I didn't see the Ramban (and definitely not the Artscroll ), but rather was going on your original presentation of it. I don't have an Artscroll Ramban, but I have a Mikros Gedolos with the Ramban. Assuming that you're taking from the Ramban in Lech Licha 15:14 (for all those that are keeping score at home)

Behold, the Ramban says exactly what I wrote. He says that though someone is decreed to doe on Rosh Hashana, it wouldn't exempt the murderer. (That the victim did deserve it and so was decreed.)

He says only when there is a command from a prophet and he does it to 1)fulfill the words of the prophet, and not for his own gain 2) he doesn't add to what the prophet decreed. Like by Yehu that destroyed the house of Achav. But Parroh and Nevuchadnezer did it for their own use and overstepped THE DECREE. (Maybe Artscroll has a different Girsah. Allas Meglach)

QUOTE
He says only when there is a command from a prophet and he does it to 1)fulfill the words of the prophet, and not for his own gain 2) he doesn't add to what the prophet decreed. Like by Yehu that destroyed the house of Achav. But Parroh and Nevuchadnezer did it for their own use and overstepped THE DECREE. (Maybe Artscroll has a different Girsah. Allas Meglach)
QUOTE

I am reading from the Ramban himself. I brought the translation of the Artscroll only to show I was not mistranslating it.That very Ramban you have mentioned (even in the original Hebrew)clearly states there were TWO reasons Nevuchadnezzer was punished. One was because he went further than the decree , and the SECOND reason(which you chose to leave out)was that the Jews did not deserve it.

Quote "and the SECOND reason(which you chose to leave out)was that the Jews did not deserve it."

This is not the 2nd reason. Which word in the Ramban are you translating to be "deserved". the other reason is because they did it for their own grandeur, not to fulfill the words of the Navi. Which RAmban are you reading?