Over this previous Shabbos I was at a good friend's house and I had a question on the Haftorah of day- dealing with Elisha reviving the dead boy. The question lead us on an hour long, very interesting quest for the solution- and i thought i would share the conclusion of it all...

Elisha lived in a time in which the mitzvah of para adumah (the red heifer whose ashes purified those who come into contact with death) was a mitzvah that was able to be fulfilled. If Elisha came into contact with the dead boy, he would have to undergo the procedure of para adumah in oder to be purified from tumos mes (the impurity of death). And the boy whose physical body was at one point dead, would have contracted tumos mes, but when he was revived- did the tumoh depart?

This leaves us with two questions needing an answer:

1) Elisha was a tzadik and I was told that tzadik is not mkabel tumoh, so would he halachically NEED the para adumah?

2) The question on the boy is if he would also need to undergo para adumah, for actually being the corpse that imparted the tumoah, even though he was resurrected.



After studying the commentaries of Rashi, Abarbenel, Ralbag, etc etc- we arrived at this conclusion...

When the Shunamite woman approached Elisha, she told him that her son was dead, afterwhich he told Gehazi to "gird up his loins"- commentary stops to ask what does this phrase mean? It means that he should wrap himself tightly to protect his inner organs so that he can run to the boy as fast as possible. When Gehazi reached the boy he placed the staff upon his face and saw no reaction- the boy was dead and the staff would not bring him back.
When Elisha arrived he began to daven to Hashem and went to warm the boy by placing his hands on his hands, his mouth on the mouth, and his eyes on the eyes of the boy- the boy eventually became warm and regained consiousness...

Now although we see that throughout this entire eposide, the boy is referred to as "dead"- we also see that it was shunamite woman, a lay person, who used this language to refer to her son- but elisha on the other hand- realized that there was a fine line between life and death, and sent gehazi as fast as possible to the boy's side- because although the woman who saw no reaction in her son had assumed him dead- Elisha the tzadik saw that the boy was comatose and although lifeless, was not truly dead.
Elisha davened for the boy, and he revived him from his comatose state, and thus, he never really came into contact with a dead body- only a boy assumed to be dead by the average person.

Therefore, there was no tumos mes, and no need at all for para adumah. And it goes to show, that this tzadik was not mkabel tumoh, as previously mentioned.

It is also interesting to note that the comatose boy grew up to a be a well known person- Chabukuk. We learn it out that he was Chabukuk by Elisha telling the Shunamite woman when he promises her a son, that she will "embrace" a son in one year- embrace comes from the word "chibuk"- and the shunamite woman named him accordingly...

Just thought I would share certain points that were brought out that give a deeper understanding into the 'NaCh.

Kol tuv.

Thank you for sharing your insights with us.

I do, however, have some questions:

1. What is the source for your statement that a tzadik is not mekabel tuma?

2. I'm not sure where you infer from the verses that the boy was not in fact dead, merely comatose.

3. The para adumah was only needed if one wanted to go into the Beis HaMikdash or touch Kodesh items. Otherwise, it wasn't strictly necessary.

There is a Tosfos in Bava Metziah (top one on Daf 114b) that brings a Medrish that Eliyahu said so why he, a Kohain, was able to participate in the burying of Rabbi Akiva. Tosfos, though, says that was not the real reason, but because it was a Meis Mitzvah. There could be others that learn it K'Pshuto. But it only means that he doesn't impart Tumah when he's dead, not that if he gets in contact with another dead.

As Yisrael points out, that there is no Issur as to become Tameh Meis only to go into the Bais Hamikdash or if he's a kohain. Even if he would be a Kohain, he still can do it, because to save a life (like all other Mitzvos are pushed off to save a life. This is also mentioned in Tosfos BM 114b D"H Amar. (The Netziv says that Tosfos implies that only if he can definitely save him, but not from a Sufaik, since he's already dead.)

Also, he must of died, since the Gemarah in Yuma 85a criteria to know if someone's dead is if he's not breathing. Thus, if he was not breathing for the time it took to go back and forth to Elisha he can definitely not survive. Also, it doesn't seem like such a miracle that Elisha did mouth to mouth recesatation, and how would this fulfill that which Eliyahu told him that he'll do twice of what he did if it wasn't a revival of the dead.

Quote "2) The question on the boy is if he would also need to undergo para adumah, for actually being the corpse that imparted the tumoah, even though he was resurrected."

He wouldn't need from what we see on Shabbos 112b D"H aval, that once something is Tamah, he's feeled with it and cannot get another Tumah. So when the first Tumah cannot exist anymore, the 2nd tumah doesn't come on it anymore. SO when he died, he was Tumay Meis, so even if he touched himself, he doesn't become Tumas Mega Mais. When he's revived and no longer is Tumas Mais, he never gets Tumas Mega Mais, so he doesn't need a Para Aduma.

I meant to say the the object is "filled" with Tumah, and thus can't get any other Tumah ANd not "feeled" sorry for the typo

Question for the Rabbi or anyone who maybe has some insight: A friend of mine explained to me the source for the halacha regarding tuma met- In Gan Eden there was no death. There was also no tuma. Tuma is really a twisting of the created order, thus a man is created for life when he dies his body becomes tuma since it is no longer fufilling its proper task. The body of a Jew since it was given a higher calling (Torah) actually radiates tuma upward. Kol v'khomer should not the body of a Tzaddik radiate even more tuma? So why does the k'Pshuto (what is k'Pshuto?) say that the body of a TZaddik does not does not impart tuma?

It is also possible that I learned this Halacha completely wrong- if so feel free to correct me.

Thanks
-Jake

Rav Chaim,

Points well taken!

As i said in my original posting- i "heard" that a tzadik doesn't impart tumah- not that i read it, was taught it etc, however, i had heard it from what is usually a very credible source- so i went back to this source and asked what was the original source of this comment- and come to find out- they dont know...

So i mentioned that perhaps they meant to say that kivrei tzadikim dont IMPART tumah, but a tzadik still halachically has the ability to RECEIVE tumah, because after all, a man, even a tzadik is bound by halacha. And i was told this was a valid point and that perhaps they too had learned wrong.

As for para adumah only being needed when a person was going into the beis hamikdash- the obligation of para adumah would still be upon every man able to travel and who came into tumos mes- 3 times a year, no? for the shalosh regalim when he was required to appear in the beis hamikdash.

Regarding "mouth to mouth resucitation" and "not breathing"... nowhere did i say that such a thing was brought about... of course there are halachic peramiters of what is life and death. But from what my simple mind understands, is that neither the posukim or many of the commentaries brought that he was without breath. It simply wasn't mentioned whether he was breathing or not. And mouth to mouth rescusitation probably wouldn't work on a comatose person. So although he put his mouth to the boy's mouth, i dont know if it was to breathe air into him or not.

and as for "tumah mega mes"- its not about him touching himself after he awakes- it was simply the fact that he was dead, and he came to life. So because his physical body had ALREADY contracted tumos mes, and he wasn't purified from it- would he have to be?

This brings another question- what about in the era of techiyas hamesim when all of those who were nifter are resurrected and we'll again have para adumah- do they need to undergo? From the discussions i have had with different rabbis- it seems to me, that they would. and if they would, then if the boy also was truly dead- then he would too. But if he was simply in a coma- it wouldn't be needed.

With all due respect. Lshem shmayim.

Quote "But from what my simple mind understands, is that neither the posukim or many of the commentaries brought that he was without breath."

I would imagine that if they thought he was dead, they would check to make sure if they are breathing. (Since this is the Halachic parameters of death, that would seem that would be what they would look for.) It would be hard to confuse comatose for death if the person is still breathing. (It reminds me of a "Far Side" where you have a bunch of bears sitting around in a funeral parlor with a casket open and a bear sitting up in it. The bear in the casket remarks "I was hibernating for goodness sakes! Didn't anyone take a pulse?" 

Quote "and as for "tumah mega mes"- its not about him touching himself after he awakes- it was simply the fact that he was dead, and he came to life. So because his physical body had ALREADY contracted tumos mes, and he wasn't purified from it- would he have to be?"

I'll clarify my position by explaining the Gemarah in Shabbos I was comparing it to. A shoe is Mekabel Tumas Medras, since it's made to lean on. Even if it would touch itself, it would still only have Tumas Medras and not Tumas Medras and Mega Tumas Medras, since it's filled with the Tumas Medras, the Mega has no place to go. Now, if the shoe becomes impossible to wear, because it gets ruined (but it's still able to be used as a utensil, so it's Mekabul other Tumas besides Medras) it's completely Tohor. Since it's no longer fit to be Medras, so what it touched itself while it was Medres, doesn't make it Mega Medras after it's no longer fit for Medras.

SO too here. When someone dies, he's Tumas Meis itself and not Mega Meis, even if he touches himself while he's dead. (similar to the shoe is Medras and not Mega Medra.) When he becomes alive, he's no longer fit to be a Tumas Meis itself (since dead is one of the requirements) so he never received Mega Meis at that time, so he never requires that Tuma even after he becomes alive (since he can't receive that Tuma while he's dead and when he's alive he's not touching anything dead.) SO when he wakes up he should be completely Tohor, just like the broken shoe is completely Tohor

quote:

Quote "and as for "tumah mega mes"- its not about him touching himself after he awakes- it was simply the fact that he was dead, and he came to life. So because his physical body had ALREADY contracted tumos mes, and he wasn't purified from it- would he have to be?"

Do we say that an infant being born, before its first breath, is fully alive as in self-sustaining life?

In what way is a first breath like the first breath after the 7 sneezes in our haftorah?

What is the halacha regarding someone who was born (which is most everyone!) and took their first breath (ditto) and never was exposed to any impurity - do they need any purification before entering the Beis HaMikdash?

Referring back to my original posting- the halachic parameters of death would be easy to recognize if a person KNEW what they were, but as we recall, it was the shunamite woman who first claimed the boy was "dead"... as i said, perhaps her being a lay person accounted for her false interperatation of the situation and her claims of death were not halachic death. and the posukim just continued to use her lashon.

how would you reconcile the commentaries saying he was not really dead with the concept that he must really have been dead?

Quote "how would you reconcile the commentaries saying he was not really dead with the concept that he must really have been dead?"

I'm not familiar with those commentaries, but it would seem from the verses that he was dead. For when Elisha revived him it says " that the body became warm." This would imply that the body already assumed room temperature

Ahhhhh but being not warm is not a sign of halachically dead, now is it?

The human loses up to 20% of its body heat while simply sleeping- how much more so if in a coma?

A simple reading of the posuk without commentary often leaves one unlightened on the depth of the situation.

Scientifically speaking- a body doesn't have to be dead to be cold. And the same goes for halacha, no?

quote:

The human loses up to 20% of its body heat while simply sleeping- how much more so if in a coma?

I understand that the nadir of temperature during deep sleep, or when our bodies are craving / insisting upon more sleep, is around 2 degree fahrenheight drop.

How would you convert "body heat" to "measured temperature"? The zero point for temperature is arguably absolute zero where no molecular kinetic energy is possible... and that's perhaps in the thousands of fahrenheit degrees below water's freezing point. 20% of that temperature differential would surely result in frozen salt water and ruptured cell walls, so this cannot be what you mean.


Also note: the haftorah mentioned the room that the Shunamite family built was on the roof.

Perhaps the ambient room temperature was colder than normal indoors? Or perhaps I'm projecting from a New England USA perspective.


Also to note: Shunamite is mentioned in this haftorah we are discussing, and also in last week's haftorah of the pretty young girl who spent non-intimate time (coincidentally) warming Dovid HaMelech.

Are there any other mentions of Shunami?

Is there a connection to be made between Shunami and warming body temperatures???

Who are the Shunami? In both of these stories I would be pretty sure we are talking about Jews who lived in some area known as Shunamite... but her statement "I live among my people" gives a possible indication of her people being other than the Jewish people?

"Ahhhhh but being not warm is not a sign of halachically dead, now is it?"

It happens way after the Halachic non breathing (an hour at least.) Same way as decomposition is not used as the halachic standard of death. I just brought it down to show that at the time Elisha found him he was dead. (The temperature drop cannot be that bad by sleeping, as Rob already wrote.)

Quote "A simple reading of the posuk without commentary often leaves one unlightened on the depth of the situation."

First of all, I never sad I never saw commentaries. All the ones I saw said or implied he was dead. This seems the view of Chazal. I just weren't familiar with commentaries that said he wasn't dead. So far, you haven't enlightened me with any reason to say he wasn't dead. On the contrary, not only can't I see any reason to say he wasn't dead, it becomes more and more doubtful that you can squeeze it in it.

Regarding 20%- meant 2%. Typo.

And as for the whole topic, the debate could go on fruitlessly forever- but as the hard-headed one with the least Torah learning- i will smartly concede to the one with "Rav" in his name and allow the topic to dwindle away...