Parshas Lech Lecha

"What do you mean I stole?? I just watched some guy embarrass a lady
and didn't do anything about it."

After Sarah was insulted by Hagar and Avraham didn't say anything,
Sarah said to Avraham " My injustice (chamasi) is upon you." (Biraishis
16:5) Rashi, bothered by the language "chamas" which has an implication of
"thievery", brings a Midrash (Midrash Rabbah 45:5 ) that explains Sarah's
words as "You stole your words from me"--i.e.."By not saying anything, you
withheld words that you should have said for me."

When we are able to correct an injustice (we have to make sure our
interference won't make it worse) and don't, we are "stealing" from the
victim!!

Have a great Shabbos !!

Rabbi Chaim Flom
_______________________________________________

Dear Rabbi Flom:

Is there any commentary which connects this type of "stealing" back with Parshas Noach where the word is apparently used a few times?

My rabbi used this situation between Avraham and Sarah to exemplify invoking strict justice. His interpretation was that Sarah was right, but as a consequence of having invoked scrict justice, she lost 20 years of her life.

Are there any other examples in Chumash of this type of invocation and its consequence?

Dear Rob,
Thanks for the question. I am not aware of a Chazal that Sarah died 20 years early, but one that says it was 38 years.If that is what your Rabbi was talking about let me clarify the Chazal. It is a Gemara in Rosh Hashana 16b and Baba Kamma 93a, with a little more elaboration in Medrash Rabba Biraishis 45:5. The Gemara in Rosh Hashana says "whoever places judgement on his friend [TO HEAVEN], is punished first." It brings our Posuk of Sarah saying "my injustice is upon you" and afterwards it is written that "Avraham came to eulogize and cry for Sarah",implying a connection between the two.Rashi says, and this is explicit in the Medrash and the Gemara in Baba Kamma, that the point is based on the last part of the Posuk where Sarah said "Let Hashem judge between me and you".That is why even though the Gemara in Rosh Hashana didn't say "...to Heaven" that is what it means.
The Medrash says that she died 38 early. What is 38 years? She died at 127, and Avraham died at 175.He was 10 years older than her, so if she would have lived 38 years she would have died with Avraham. One of my chavrusahs, Rabbi Ephraim Dovid Becker,had a fantastic insight (as usual) here. When an older person dies, his or her spouse, usually says that without my spouse, I should "go" too. Even though Sarah was 10 years younger than Avraham, the "right" time to die was when Avraham dies.
Bli neder, when I get a chance, I will see if there is a Chazal about "20 years" and I'll try to think if there are similar cases in the Torah.
Have a good Shabbos.
Rabbi Flom

Dear Rabbi Flom:

Based on your reply I am quite certain that my rabbi must have said 38 years, and I somehow thought 20 years when I wrote. I now think he may not have specified the number of years. I would edit my post but that would diminish the value of your correction.

Is there perhaps a second count of this behavior on Sarah's part? And it is 20 years per count?

Does any of those Gemara discussions give us other examples of someone invoking strict justice?

Are there any cases where it is necessary and proper to invoke strict justice, so proper that there is no resultant reduction in lifespan?

A review of some notes I made a few years ago on this subject of strict justice reminds me that there is Rashi commentary that Sarah Imenu may have brought upon a miscarriage to Hagar by invoking an evil eye. It was not clear to me whether this was conscious or unconscious.

Based on various discussions about damages to animals which cause miscarriages, and also something due to a woman's husband...

I was thinking then that perhaps Sarah in some way damaged Avraham in such a case as Hagar's miscarriage, since although she was her servant, we know Avraham's strong feelings for Yishmael, especially before Yitzchak came along...

Perhaps by having invoked something like strict justice against Hagar and bringing about this hurt to Avraham it counts as almost a full second count of invoking strict justice against him?

Damages owed to a woman can be payable to her husband. Damages owed by a woman who had brought resources into their marriage can be payable out of her assets that are not her husbands.

Thus I reasoned that it could be that Sarah owed Avraham for damages from the miscarriage from her own, not from his resources.

...

A small extra thought:

Perhaps I am mixing two or more stories...

Something about Yitzchok looking just like his father Avraham...

Something about people not showing their age in their appearance....

And people not getting sick before they died, just sneezing and dying...

Is a miscarriage through other than goring by an animal proof of a sickness which brought about death without a sneeze?

Are there any other miscarriages in the Torah? Perhaps during the 130 years before Adam and Chava finally had Sheis?

...

And for whatever it is worth, Yishmael was likely not a firstborn. Yitzchak was a firstborn. Take that Yishmael in your "mocking" my forefather Yitzchak!

quote:

Originally posted by rob:
I would edit my post but that would diminish the value of your correction.

There is a two hour limit from the time of original posting to go back and edit.

Dear Rob,
I hope to be able to do some "homework" about your questions over Shabbos.
I am not sure that my discussion was what your rebbe was talking about, because mine was note invoking "strict justice" per se, but rather, taking the judgement unnecessarily to Hashem.Do you think that in fact, that was what your rebbe meant?
Also, I was looking at your second letter, and you mentioned "strict judgement against Hagar". Were you referring to the Posuk that we were talking about? This posuk was talking about Sarah & Avaham, not Sarah dealing with Hagar. Or were you referring to when Sarah evicted Hagar?
"Are there any cases where it is necessary and proper to invoke strict justice, so proper that there is no resultant reduction in lifespan?"
In my case,if the person had no other option,ie. he couldn't speak to the other party and there is no recourse through Bais Din, he could "go to Hashem".
Take care. Good Shabbos.
Rabbi Flom

Dear Rob,
So far I didn't find another "sin" of Sarah that caused her to lose 20 years of her life.
As far as Yishmael not being a bechor: I didn't see anywhere (yet) how long Hagar was pregnant before she miscarried. (In order for the next child to not be a bechor, the mother had to have been pregnant 40 days with first one- there is a machlokes exactly how to calculate the begining of the 40 days and if the 40th day is included or not.)
Take care.
Rabbi Flom

Dear Rabbi Flom:

My rabbi and I were discussing the consequences of living in a world of Din, and used this case by Sarah Imenu as an example of a negative consequence even when apparently she was right in her dispute.

Since that time I noticed at least one other place where there seems to be invocation of Hashem's name for strict justice, but it was on behalf of a group, and not on behalf of an individual. I cannot remember the reference however. Any ideas?

Dear Rabbi Flom:

I am not saying its a "sin" by Sarah to have triggered Hagar's miscarriage... but perhaps she did both earn a debt to Avraham and/or earned a negative consequence of having triggered the event by some process similar to invoking Hashem's strict Justice.

On a related subject, we know by the 3 angels who visited Avraham, by the incident of kneading dough, that the way of women had just returned to Sarah. Or perhaps in her case this was not even a return, but an initiation?

Given this, and that it seems to have been before her learning that she would be having a son, and laughing at her insides, which she denied, perhaps this information should not have been such a surprise?

And depending on how much before their incident with Avimelech was this change, was Sarah perhaps fertile already by that time?

If she were not only fertile but pregnant, was it even necessary for Yitzchak to have the special considerations of looking like Avraham, a special weaning party, and the silver head covering?

And unrelated, how quickly did word of Lot's daughter's pregnancy's spread?