OUUUUUUCH MR PHILLIPS, that was brutal!!!

According to what you previously posted- I was "wrong" only from one understanding... its all about context.

As you said, "Yehudi" as in "das Yehudis" is a word commonly used in the Talmud and on... IN THE TALMUD AND ON.

I was speaking distinctly of having the word in Chumash, as was the time period of the character with the name. Yehudi, is from my understanding- a word that is not found in the Chumash. It was prior to the time when there was a distinction as "Jew". There were many classifications for Jews at that time- but no word meaning "Jew". Although of course, it COULD have existed even if not recorded in the Chumash i suppose.

Throughout the period in which the torah she'baal peh was recorded and evolved into the gemora, the word "yehudi" appeared in the context of a discription of the people who follow the Torah.

Now, in this light, understanding the time in context- leads us to examine the name in the context of the time.

If "yehudi" wasn't used to describe the Jews at THAT TIME, then the etymology would be derived from something else- probably Yehudah, as previously mentioned.

Again, the context of time- we are described as "yehudim" because "we descend from the southern kingdom that was lead by the tribe of Yehudah." (taken from the article posted below) So Yehudim is taken from Yehudah, and Yehudis is also taken from Yehudah- the are all from the same root. What is the root? To thank Hashem. A rejection of idolatry. As Rav Chaim previously mentioned, its said Esav changed his wife's name to trick people into believing she was monotheistic... read on below.

This portion of an article says it nicely:

Rabbi David Silverberg writes:

Parashat Vayishlach concludes with a presentation of Esav's lineage. This section begins by listing his wives, which include two Hittite women, Ada and Ahalivama (36:2). Rashi identifies Ahalivama as Yehudit, whom we met earlier, in Parashat Toledot, as one of Esav's Hittite wives (26:34). Rashi explains the discrepancy in her name by claiming that her real name was Ahalivama. Esav changed her name to Yehudit in order to mislead his parents into thinking that she rejected idolatry. Apparently, "Yehudit," which of course means "Jew," symbolizes the rejection of paganism. Obviously, this presents a serious problem. We call ourselves "Yehudim," Jews, because we descend from the Southern Kingdom that was led by the tribe of Yehuda, whose territory was thus named Judea. Now when Esav married Ahalivama, Yaakov had not even married yet, let alone begotten his fourth son, Yehuda. How, then, did the name "Yehudit" signify the opposition to paganism? (See Rav Yaakov Kaminetzky, in his "Emet Le-Yaakov.)

We have no choice but to explain that this term bore significance even before the birth of Yehuda. To identify the source of this significance, we need only to note the origin of Yehuda's name. Upon his birth, his mother, Leah, declares, "This time Iwill thank God" ("ha-pa'am odeh at Hashem" - 29:35). The name Yehuda thus means the expression of gratitude, or the recognition of the Almighty as solely responsible for evin the universe. From Rashi it clearly emerges that this very point lies at the heart of monotheism and marks the fundamental distinction between it and idolatry.

We may perhaps gain a clearer understanding of this point by considering the Gemara's comment in Masekhet Berakhot 7b. The Gemara there claims that no one ever thanked the Almighty until Leah did upon Yehuda's birth. Many commentators have struggled to understand the Gemara's intent. Could it be that no one ever expressed gratitude to God before Leah delivered her fourth child? On one level, this Gemara will always remain an enigma: it's hard to imagine that Leah introduced a new dimension of gratitude that Avraham, Yitzchak or Yaakov never expressed. Nevertheless, attempts have been made to identify this new dimension of Leah's thanksgiving. Some have claimed that whereas many of her predecessors thanked God for supernatural or extraordinary events, Leah represented a constant acknowledgment of God's kindness, as manifest even in ordinary occurrences. We may add that at all her other births, Leah issued a declaration explicitly referring to her status vis-à-vis Yaakov, she was thankful specifically for the "promotion" she earned as a result of her having borne children. This time, she makes no mention whatsoever of her husband's affection for her; she states simply, "This time I will thank God." It appears as though at this point Leah achieves a generic sense of appreciation for God's goodness, irrespective of any specific acts of kindness.

Appropriately enough, then, our nation is referred to as "Yehudim." The pagans worshipped their gods in order to extract the given benefit: they worshipped the rain god to give them rain, the wind god to avoid harsh storms, the ocean god to allow ships safe passage, and so on. They served gods only to the extent to which it would advance their own interests. As "Yehudim," we represent the ideal of appreciation the Almighty's greatness in its own right, acknowledging that He is Master over the universe and the source of all goodness and blessing in the world.


http://www.vbm-torah.org/archive/salt-bereishit/08-5vayishlach.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Bracha:
OUUUUUUCH MR PHILLIPS, that was brutal!!!

According to what you previously posted- I was "wrong" only from one understanding... its all about context.

As you said, "Yehudi" as in "das Yehudis" is a word commonly used in the Talmud and on... IN THE TALMUD AND ON.

I was speaking distinctly of having the word in Chumash, as was the time period of the character with the name. Yehudi, is from my understanding- a word that is not found in the Chumash.

My apologies for any offence, but you did say that Yehudis wasn't to be found in "Lashon Kodesh" and I took you to mean Hebrew that predated Modern Hebrew (Ivris).

quote:

I think the distinction is between what you and I know as Lashon Kodesh (the language of the Bible, Mishna etc.) and what in English is called "Modern Hebrew" which is the Ivrit being referred to.

Okay, thank you. That clears it up nicely.

quote:

We may perhaps gain a clearer understanding of this point by considering the Gemara's comment in Masekhet Berakhot 7b. The Gemara there claims that no one ever thanked the Almighty until Leah did upon Yehuda's birth.

And Leah represents the enigmatic quality of Binah and the neshamah soul level.

quote:

it's hard to imagine that Leah introduced a new dimension of gratitude that Avraham, Yitzchak and Yaakov never expressed

No, it isn't hard to imagine at all. The patriarchs are all representative of sefirot within the configuration of the middot (chesed through yesod) - where Avraham represents chesed, Yitzchak represents gevurah and Yaakov represents tiferet. Leah represents cold intellect and absolute objectivity - above the level of the middot. So, Leah's expression of gratitude is clearly different from those of the patriarchs. Leah's arose from pure intellectual recognition. The patriarchs' expressions were more emotively driven. Consequently, it is not so hard to imagine that Leah's expression of gratitude repesents an entirely new dimension to the matter.

quote:

Nevertheless, several attempts have been made to identify this new dimension of thanksgiving. Some have claimed that whereas many of her predecessors thanked G-d for supernatural events, Leah represented a constant acknowledgment of G-d's kindess, as manifest even in ordinary occurrences

I like the cold intellect explanation better. It makes more sense, I think.

quote:

Leah achieves (at the point of Yehudah's birth) a generic sense of appreciation ... irrespective of any specific acts of kindness

She has become temimut.

quote:

My apologies for any offence, but you did say that Yehudis wasn't to be found in "Lashon Kodesh" and I took you to mean Hebrew that predated Modern Hebrew (Ivris).

No offense. The error was all mine for not being clear in what I meant.

The gemarah in Megilah 13a says that a Yehudi is someone that denies divinity of idols. We see this is a common word in tanach to describe Jews. The whole Megila describes Jews as yehudim (LaYihudim husah Orah etc.) Mordichai was described as the Yehudi. The gemarah brings a proof from Daniel, that he said that there was "Yehudim" that didn't worship the other gods (Chananya, Mishoel and Azarya.) In Divri hayamim, it refers to Batya Bas Paroh as Yididyah, because she denied the divinity of idols. See there in megilah.

The Maharsa explains that the Gemarah in Sotah said that Yehuda was Zoche to have the whole name of Hashen in his name. So we call those that deny divinity of idols of the name of Yehudah, since within it is the name of Hashem.



(In the Gemarah, Jews are basically referred to as "Yisrael")

Yedidyah was also a name by which King Solomon was known (11 Shmuel 12:25).

I mean 2 shmuel 12:25