Parshas Mishpatim

"Did I miss the bus?"
"Yes, it came 5 minutes ago."
"Hey, here it is !! Why did you tell me it came already?"
"It was supposed to come 5 minutes ago, so I assumed it did."

"Distance yourself from falsehood" (Shemos 23:7) means much more than
just "not making up a big whopper" to get out of trouble : Any deviation
from the truth is false !!

The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth !!

Have a great Shabbos !!

Rabbi Chaim Flom

Dear Rabbi Flom,
I heard that you have a favorite shmooze about "truth", that is probably longer than your usual ten lines. Could you please share it with us?
Thanks.
Tzivy

Dear Tzivy,
Many years ago I heard the follwing shmooze from my Rosh HaYeshiva, Rav Henoch Liebowitz shli'ta :In the famous story about the 2 mothers who each claimed that the live baby was her's, Shlomo HaMelech said to divide the baby in half. One mother said that it was okay and the other said not to. Shlomo haMelech awarded the baby to the second woman and said "she is the mother." (Kings 1:3:27) Rashi says " a bas kol (heavenly voice) came out and said 'she is the mother'". My Rosh haYeshiva asked that 1)if a heavenly voice said it, why is Shlomo haMelech considered so smart,2)he seems to have figured it out without the bas kol,so why was it necessary? He answered that obviously, Shlomo haMelech's technique was a pretty good indicator of who the mother was, and as any judge must do, once he decides what he feels is the verdict, must act on it. However, Rashi is bothered by Shlomo haMelech's declaration that "she is the mother" which is a definitive statement (ie.he should have said "I am awarding her the baby because the facts seem to indicate that she is the mother"-not "she is the mother") To this Rashi says, that since a bas kol told it to him or the bas kol said it entirely, it is fine.We see from here the demands of truth.
Thanks and take care.
Rabbi Flom

The Rav ended: "The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth !!"

Aren't there times that the truth NEEDS to be stretched for the sake of Shalom?

Welcome to GY, Magedman.

Indeed you are right, there are times when, for Shalom Bayis for instance, one needs to stretch the truth or perhaps even tell an outright lie. We learn this from when Hashem said to Avraham that Sarah had said "I am old," when in fact what she actually said was "My husband is old."

Obviously, if there is any way around not having to tell a lie, then it should be taken.

Dear Mordechai,
You are definitely correct that chazal allow us sometimes to "stretch" (your term is good) the truth. We see it for the sake of shalom (peace) with Hashem, Avraham & Sarah (at the time Avram & Sarai)Biraishis 18:13. Also for tzinius, humility, and other people's discomfort as we learn in Baba Metzia 23b-24a. We also see that Yaacov was known as the "man of truth" despite the fact that he actively passed himself off as Eisav. He did it because his mother the prophetess commanded him to do so.(Another reason to "stretch the truth".)
The basic understanding is, that even though I must tell the truth,when chazal tell me not to, that is what I must do, so we say "oness Rachmana patrei" ie. I am exempt because of extenuating circumstances. However, it is possible to say a different explanation. The definition of truth is "that which I am supposed to say". There is a story about Rav Yaacov Kaminetzky (about whom stories of "emes" are legendary)who heard of a non-Jew who hid a Jew during the Holocaust. When nazis asked him if had any Jews in his house, he said "yes". When asked why he gave him (the Jew)up, he said "I am not allowed to lie". Rav Yaacov said that the biggest lie the non-Jew said was that there was a Jew in his house. He was supposed to say "no", and therefore saying "yes" was a lie !! (I don't know if I could necessarily bring a proof from a story, but I think the pshat has been said by other people before.)
One last note : The permissibilty of stretching the truth, is not a "carte blanche" concept--when in doubt LIE. We don't see faults in ourselves so well, and sometimes we lie to cover ourselves, that is not what it is all about. By the way, the case of Shalom, was when Hashem told something to Avraham that SARAH said, not where Avraham was covering up for himself.
I hope that this has been helpful.
Good Shabbos.
Rabbi Flom

quote:

Hashem said to Avraham that Sarah had said "I am old," when in fact what she actually said was "My husband is old."

By the mention of laughter, did Sarah laugh at her insides and in fact say that she was old?

Is the aspect you are treating as a type of lie merely an omission that Sarah had also said that her husband, Avraham, was old?

And finally, if it were as you are saying it, can we twist these words similarly to the way Yaakov said to Yitzchak, "It is I. Eisav your firstborn." per Rashi, explaiing that it was technically two true statements? And thus say that somehow that "I" am old makes sense through the mechanism of prophetic communication? That the _I_ refered to any angel involved, or Hashem, or Avraham's inner self through which the communicaton came?

I am of course not disagreeing with your message, and I just questioning if the example really is as clear cut as you make it out to be.

Dear Yisroel Phillips,
When you wrote:
'We learn this from when Hashem said to Avraham that Sarah had said "I am old," when in fact what she actually said was "My husband is old." '
Sarah also said about herself that she was old (Biraishis 18:12)"After I am grown old shall I have pleasure, my husband is also old".
Take care.
Chaim Flom

quote:

Originally posted by rob:
By the mention of laughter, did Sarah laugh at her insides and in fact say that she was old?

It would seem she did actually say it, because Rashi on the next verse where Hashem reports she said "I am old" says that He changed what she said because of Shalom.

quote:

And finally, if it were as you are saying it, can we twist these words similarly to the way Yaakov said to Yitzchak, "It is I. Eisav your firstborn." per Rashi, explaiing that it was technically two true statements? And thus say that somehow that "I" am old makes sense through the mechanism of prophetic communication? That the _I_ refered to any angel involved, or Hashem, or Avraham's inner self through which the communicaton came?

It seems clear that she did say "I am old."

As regards your example of Yaakov, when I lein that Paresha in Shul I sing the "Ani", pause for a spilt second, and then continue "Esav Bechorecha."

Dear Rob,
I'll answer your points (hopefully satisfactorily one by one.)

1)"By the mention of laughter, did Sarah laugh at her insides and in fact say that she was old?"
1)If I understand your question correctly, you asked "did Sarah say that she was too old to have a baby on the INSIDE, or did she she say ALOUD about her insides?" If that is the question, it is an excellent one !! Rashi says on the word "bikirba-within herself" "she looked at her belly and asked if she could have a child". This implies that bikirba refers to where she looked and NOT where she spoke, so she spoke aloud. The Taz on the Torah says that a motivation for Rashi to say this was the word "laimore-saying". (I have a question on this pshat, but that's not for now.) The Chizkuni on the other hand says she laughed INSIDE, and the "laimore-saying" means that had anyone been around, this is what she would have said aloud.

2)Is the aspect you are treating as a type of lie merely an omission that Sarah had also said that her husband, Avraham, was old?
2)Yes. Leaving out facts is also a lie.

3)And finally, if it were as you are saying it, can we twist these words similarly to the way Yaakov said to Yitzchak, "It is I. Eisav your firstborn." per Rashi, explaiing that it was technically two true statements? And thus say that somehow that "I" am old makes sense through the mechanism of prophetic communication? That the _I_ refered to any angel involved, or Hashem, or Avraham's inner self through which the communicaton came?
3)First of all, even when Rashi says "It is I. Eisav is your firstborn", he ISN'T implying that without Rivka the prophetess telling him to do so, he would have done it. ie. When Yaacov had to fool Yitzchok, he still tried doing it in the least lying way. Second, Rashi is telling us what Yaacov had in his mind, we don't see that what you suggested, Sarah had in mind.

Your comments are always appreciated. Take care.
Chaim Flom

quote:

2)Is the aspect you are treating as a type of lie merely an omission that Sarah had also said that her husband, Avraham, was old?
2)Yes. Leaving out facts is also a lie.

Dear Rabbi Flom:

Would you agree that an act of omission is not as bad as an act of comission?

And even if we say each are deviations from the truth, if we can find that a role model has committed an act of omission, can we take that as an endorsement of an act of comission?

Perhaps there would have been no constructive purpose to sharing what Sarah thought to say, and thus it would have been prohibitted to repeat all of that which she said?

Quote "Aren't there times that the truth NEEDS to be stretched for the sake of Shalom?"

Yevamos 65b says that. See also BM 23b and Kesuvos 16b-17a for other cases of practical lying because of Shalom.

Dear Rob,
Regarding your note:
"1)Would you agree that an act of omission is not as bad as an act of comission?"
1)That is true.I would also say that if one could lie by omission or comission, he should do omission.(See Chofetz Chaim, laws of rechilus,chapter 1 paragraph 8 who talks about "minimizing the lie".)


2)"And even if we say each are deviations from the truth, if we can find that a role model has committed an act of omission, can we take that as an endorsement of an act of comission?"
2)You are correct that you probably couldn't learn comission from omission, but Chazal have examples of comission also. In Yevamos 65b, Chazal use the brothers telling Yosef (Biraishis 50:16-17)that Yaacov wanted them to relay to Yosef a message that he (Yosef)should forgive them. That was, clearly, according to Chazal, not true, and is a source of "permission to deviate words for the sake of peace".

3)"Perhaps there would have been no constructive purpose to sharing what Sarah thought to say, and thus it would have been prohibitted to repeat all of that which she said?"
3)This is an excellent point!! Yet it is apparent from Rashi & Chazal that Hashem would have mentioned it and only didn't because of Shalom. The answer is, that Sarah had 2 reasons that she was skeptical, her age & Avraham's. Had there only been one reason she might not have had a problem, so mentioning one problem isn't so logical a reason to laugh. But, because of Shalom, Hashem mentioned just Sarah's age.
Take care.
Chaim Flom

Dear Yisroel Phillips,
Regarding your statement:
------------------------------------------
when I lein that Paresha in Shul I sing the "Ani", pause for a spilt second, and then continue "Esav Bechorecha."
---------------------------------------
The "trop" (musical note on the word, which we have a mesorah for) is a pashta, which is a slight pause. All words with a pashta need a slight pause.
Take care.
Chaim Flom

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rabbi Flom:

The "trop" (musical note on the word, which we have a mesorah for) is a pashta, which is a slight pause. All words with a pashta need a slight pause.


Dear Rabbi,

I've just noticed this reply of yours. I've always wonderred (being that I never had real formal training in this area). What is the difference between a pashta and a kadma? How do you know which is which?

Max

Dear Mordechai (Max),
Thanks for your question.

-----------------------------------
Dear Rabbi,

I've just noticed this reply of yours. I've always wonderred (being that I never had real formal training in this area). What is the difference between a pashta and a kadma? How do you know which is which?

Max
-----------------------
The pashta & kadma (which both look exactly the same: as the right side of a parenthesis-but at a slight vertical angle, and it goes on TOP of the word)are commonly confused by many people, but (1)have entirely different functions and(2) can be differentiated if you know what to look for.
(1) The pashta creates a SLIGHT pause.(Not as strong as the end of a sentence or an esnachta,or another few that I won't list now.)Its trop category is called a "mafsik"-"stop", or "melachim"-"kings" The kadma on the other hand goes into the next word. It is called a "meshares"-"helper-servant" (which explains its relationship to the king).
(2)The pashta is always on the last LETTER of the word, regardless of where the accent of the word is. If the word is accentuated in the beginning, there will be a second pashta on that syllable. The kadma is always on the proper syllable.
I'll give an example of where people would commonly make a mistake in this week's parsha: Possuk 30:16- towards the end of the possuk says "vihoyo livnei Yisroel lizikaron" on top of "livnei" is a kadma-therefore no pause, on top of "lizikaron" is a pashta-therefore do pause.
I hope this has been helpful and not too scary looking or confusing.
Take care.
Rabbi Flom