B"H
In the "Ethics of the Fathers," we find the following statement by Rabbi Akiba:
"All things are foreseen [by G-d], yet the choice is given [unto man], and the world is judged by [its] good..." (Pirke Avoth 3:19)
...הכל צפוי והרשות נתונה ובטוב העולם נדון
Elsewhere, we find a similar statement by Rabbi Hanina:
"All is committed into the hands of heaven, except one's fear of heaven." (Niddah 16b)
הכל בידי שמים חוץ מיראת שמים
These two statements typify the view of mainstream Judaism, passed down unto us by the "chachamim" or Sages, viz., that it is mostly fate that determines what a man shall be in this life, what things befall him, etc. etc. Fate governs all things in our lives - all things, that is, except whether or not that man shall be righteous ("Tzadik") or wicked ("Rasha'"). This determination has been left up to him alone, with perhaps "fate" assisting him along the way. Indeed, we find with Pharaoh, when he had hardened his heart again and again, and refused to let the people of Israel leave his country, that G-d eventually made his hard even stiffer, so that he had no choice but to resist the pleas made by Moses.

Perhaps Rav Chaim can help me with this one. If the "choice is given unto man," what purpose would G-d have had in purposely and willingly making it impossible for Pharaoh, the king of Egypt, to submit in giving leave to his subjects, and that he had no choice in the end but to resist? I call your attention to Shemos 10:1, where it says that "G-d hardened his heart" in order to put the signs and wonders in the land of Egypt. Whatever the reason might be, we still see G-d meddling with man's choice in such a way as to make that man wicked.

Sincerely,
David Ben-Abraham

One explanation I have seen is that having his free will taken away from him was a punishment in itself.

We do have free will but it is not unlimited. It is given within the context of fate. Sometimes it's very narrow and other times it's very broad.

B"H
Yisroel,
There are several difficulties with that explanation, as I see it.
1) By taking away a man's free will, and making him do wickedly, this would imply that G-d both wishes and desires that there be wicked acts in this world. This is hard for most people to accept or fathom.
2) If G-d removed from him the ability to make a choice (i.e. took away his free will), then on the day when all men will be required to give an account for his deeds and actions in this world, Pharaoh could always say, "But you made me that way!" That is, he had no choice but to act wickedly, and in this case, it would be unjust for G-d to punish him on that account.

Sincerely, David

What God wanted was for Pharoah to do the right thing, without being forced to do it thru fear of punishment. The hardening of the heart was the removal of his fear of retribution. So He was basically giving Pharoh the freedom to exercise his free will, without being forced into any action because of fear of reprisals.

B"H
Rabbi Y. Kacev,
This explanation contradicts what the Sages say about a man being given the "choice" between right and wrong, and this would have included Pharaoh.
Even if G-d "hardened his heart," which implies (as you say) that G-d took away his fear of retribution, that is, it didn't matter one way or the other to Pharaoh if he and his people were punished, still, we're left with the basic question of why take away a man's free will?
Sincerely,
David Ben-Abraham

That is exactly what he was given,the free will to do the right thing and let the Jews leave, or the wrong thing by continuing to hold them,without being "forced " to let them go by threat of punishment.

B"H
Rabbi Y. Kacev,
If I understand you correctly, you're saying that Pharaoh still had his free will to let the people of Israel go, if he wanted to, but that G-d had only removed his fear of punishment at not letting them go.
This explanation still would not fit the plain meaning and sense of the wording in the Torah (Shemos 10:1), namely, that G-d had hardened Pharaoh's heart in order that he might NOT let them go, in order to effect his signs and wonders in Egypt. We cannot take the Scripture out of its ordinary context. Pharaoh had no free will to let them go. In fact, our Rabbis teach us that, i.e. "in the way that a man desires to go, therein they lead him!" Pharaoh initially refused, on his own accord, to let Israel leave Eygpt. At length, he had no choice but to refuse!
Sincerely,
David Ben-Abraham

What the possuk would mean according to this explanation is that Hashem hardened Pharoah's heart by removing his fear of punishment, which would of forced Pharoah to let the Bnei Yisroel go. Thus it was the "hardening"" of his heart which kept him from freeing the Jews as the possuk states

The way I see it is as a multidimensional grid in the space of events. We walk on the horizontal, vertical and diagonal lines of this grid, in the nodes of which are events that happen to us. Hashem is the only Being that sees the grid in its entirety, but it is up to us to choose which link to take, after which we arrive at the node that this link was connecting to: every action has a consequence; every choice is followed by an event.

When Hashem "hardened Pharaoh's heart", He made all the other links invisible to Pharaoh, or maybe even destroyed them, so that the Pharaoh saw no other way but to persist in his refusal to let the Israelites go.

This is a big question that the Mifarshim ask. Some Rishonim say since he didn’t send from the first few Makos, so it shows he hadn’t really repented. (Ramban and implication of Rashi) Others say that Hashem made him neutral from the affects of the Makkos in order to give his freedom of choice back (Chizkuni and others.) The Rambam has a interesting Shita, that a Rasha can get to a point where his freedom of choice is taken away from him.

I would like to suggest that it really is not a question to begin with. If Hashem would of left him be and he would release the Jews because of the Makkos, then Paroh would be considered accountable for keeping them longer. Since the Yerushalmi quoted in Tosfos Kiddushin 39b D"H Machshava that Goyim that want to do something bad, but is forced not to do it, Hashem makes him culpritable for his intent as if he did it. SO here to, even if Paroh sent them out, it would be considered as if he kept them, so as far as punishment is considered, whether he sends them out doesn’t make a difference. This could be fit into the Ramban’s and Rashi’s explanation.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex:
The way I see it is as a multidimensional grid in the space of events. We walk on the horizontal, vertical and diagonal lines of this grid, in the nodes of which are events that happen to us. Hashem is the only Being that sees the grid in its entirety, but it is up to us to choose which link to take, after which we arrive at the node that this link was connecting to: every action has a consequence; every choice is followed by an event.

Alex,
I'd like to commend you! Very beautifully stated!
Also Rav Y. Kacev had a very interesting explanation. It will take me more time to contemplate these things, and to look at the various Midrashim on this subject.
The subject of "free will" or "choice" is more complicated than what I initially thought. Maimonides, in his "Guide for the Perplexed," seems to take Alex's route when describing "free-will" and how it be related to "causes," and that all actions are ascribed unto G-d. (see: the Guide, "On Prophecy," ch. XLVIII, page 249 in the Dover Pub. second edition). I'll need more time to digest all this.
Sincerely,
David

B"H
This past Shabbos, I had the leisure of browsing through rabbinic sources, hoping to find an answer to the question I posed here, on this forum. I must say that I've not been disappointed.
The "Midrash Ha-Gadol" (Parashas Bo) says that G-d prevented Pharaoh from ever attaining to penitence, in order to be avenged of him over what he already refused to do for Israel. This explanation follows what Yisroel Phillips had said earlier.
In like manner, the Midrash Rabba (Parashas Bo) brings down two conflicting opinions: one by Rabbi Yochanan, the other by Rabbi Shimon, the son of Lakish. Rabbi Yochanan says that where G-d says he had hardened the heart of Pharaoh (Shemos 10:1), he gave occassion thereby for the "minim" (sectarians) to say that he (Pharaoh) did not have the ability to make repentance. (Implied by Rabbi Yochanan that he still had the ability to make repentance).

Rabbi Shimon, the son of Lakish, says that G-d warns a man once, twice, even three times, and if the man still persists in his ways without repenting, G-d will lock his heart so that he will not be able to make repentance thereafter, in order that G-d might be avenged of him.

Maimonides, in his Code of Jewish Law (Hilkoth Teshuva, chpts. 5 & 6) rules in accordance with Rabbi Shimon, the son of Lakish.There, he writes:
"The choice is given to every man. If he desires to incline himself after a good manner, and to be righteous, the option is his. Yet, if he desires to incline himself after a bad manner, and to be wicked, the option is his. ... Let it not come to your mind what the ignorant ones of the nations do say, as well as most uncultured persons of Israel, that the Most Holy, blessed be He, decrees upon men from the beginning of their existence to be either righteous or wicked. This is not so, rather, every man has the ability to be as righteous as Moses our Rabbi, or as wicked as Yeroboam; either wise or foolish; either compassionate or cruel; either a miser or liberal, as also any of the other traits. No one compels him, nor decrees upon him, neither draws him to one of the two divergent ways except him, by himself and of his own accord inclines to where he lists. This is what Jeremiah said: From the Most High there does not come forth both bad and good... There are many verses in the Torah and in the prophets which seem to contradict this principle, and many people stumble in them, by which they also imagine that G-d decrees upon a man to do wickedly... Wherefore, it is written in the Torah, 'And I shall harden the heart of Pharaoh,' seeing that he sinned initially of his own accord and did evil unto Israel who dwelled in his land... it became fitting to prevent him from attaining to pentinence, until [G-d] could be avenged of him. Therefore, the Most Holy, blessed be He, hardened his heart..."

Sincerely,
David Ben- Abraham

I have always felt uncomfortable with God "making" us do wrong things, because this violates free choice. Could it be rather that YhVh was telling Moishe that what he was about to do WOULD harden Pharaoh's heart, because he knew Pharaoh's heart at that moment and his life experiences and beliefs, and he knew the future reactions of Pharaoh to the miracles God planned on performing?
Could it also be that the reason God purposely chose to do things that he knew would cause Pharaoh to react was because he wanted the world to never forget that he was God, and knew that such a confrontation would never be forgotten? Isn't God always having to remind people not to worship inanimate or imaginary objects? (Or even people?) If I was the Avinu Tamid, I would want my children/creation to finally succeed in having a one-on-one like Adam and Eve, Cain, Enoch, Seth, Abraham, Yisroel, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Rabbi Y. Kacev:
What the possuk would mean according to this explanation is that Hashem hardened Pharoah's heart by removing his fear of punishment, which would of forced Pharoah to let the Bnei Yisroel go. Thus it was the "hardening"" of his heart which kept him from freeing the Jews as the possuk states

1 Samuel 6:6 Says that Egypt and Pharoah hardened their own hearts.

Yes, well said. This is how I've envisioned it, too, but Alex has given it expression. So, it's both.

quote:

Originally posted by David Ben-Abraham:

quote:

Originally posted by Alex:
The way I see it is as a multidimensional grid in the space of events. We walk on the horizontal, vertical and diagonal lines of this grid, in the nodes of which are events that happen to us. Hashem is the only Being that sees the grid in its entirety, but it is up to us to choose which link to take, after which we arrive at the node that this link was connecting to: every action has a consequence; every choice is followed by an event.

Alex,
I'd like to commend you! Very beautifully stated!
Also Rav Y. Kacev had a very interesting explanation. It will take me more time to contemplate these things, and to look at the various Midrashim on this subject.
The subject of "free will" or "choice" is more complicated than what I initially thought. Maimonides, in his "Guide for the Perplexed," seems to take Alex's route when describing "free-will" and how it be related to "causes," and that all actions are ascribed unto G-d. (see: the Guide, "On Prophecy," ch. XLVIII, page 249 in the Dover Pub. second edition). I'll need more time to digest all this.
Sincerely,
David

Thank you for all the commendations. That wasn't really the purpose of me posting what I posted; just a look from a math standpoint...

Quoting Berachos 34b, Avraham Greenbaum on page 30 of "The Wings of the Sun", writes:


Thus Rabbi Chanina ben Dosa would pray for the sick, and if his prayers flowed forth without hesitation or error he knoew that the patient would recover.


Having recently heard a scholar in residence rabbi describing kavanah as feedback from Hashem, how we know when we had the merit that our prayers would be heard, this story above brings up questions of how much free choice we have.

My comments for this thread on the above are:

Rabbi Chaninah ben Dosa seemed to have freedom to choose to pray for every sick person he might want to pray for, yet he also seemed to realize that when he was held back from his kavanah such that he was not able to pray with as much precision as at other times, his prayers for healing did not have as much likehood of success.

If Hashem is pulling the strings to hold back this rabbi from praying effectively, then perhaps the rabbi didn't really have that freedom of choice?

There is a midrash that Moshe Rabbeinu was given a direct command by Hashem to cease praying to have the decree against his entering Eretz Yisrael overturned.

Had Moshe prayed one more time, than Hashem would have fulfilled that prayer, and Hashem (knowing what is best for Moshe, and the Jewish people, and the world) wanted the decree against Moshe to stand.

So here again, Moshe's free choice to pray seems to have been limited by the unique personal direct command, surely for some unimaginable goodness still to come.

Perhaps prominent amazing personalities who serve pivotal roles in the world's progress are limited in their free choice?

The case of R’ Chanina b. Dosa is different than free will. It really wasn't Kavanah, but if he said the prayer fluently or not. This is really not free will, and the prayers are the same. It was just a sign from heaven whether the prayers were accepted or not. Has nothing to do with his ability to choose right or wrong.

The case of Moshe is also different. Hashem wanted him not to go into E.Y because of his Aveira, and didn’t want to give it to him just from prayers, yet it would look like that Hashem was being mean to him for not accepting his prayers. So he gave him a command not to pray. So Moshe got rewarded for choosing correctly to listen to Hashem not to pray, though he personally suffered from it. This is definitely exercising free will.

B"H
This reply was recently received by me, concerning the initial question posed to this list.
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Dear David,

Thank you for your interesting question.

There are two avenues that I can suggest to you. The first is that G-d regularly meddles in a man's affairs - He puts him to death. That also, effectively eliminates any further chance of repentance. (Let us remember that G-d is merciful, and does allow chances until the final time!) It should not bother us that as far as Pharaoh's "personal" account is concerned, he is or should be dead; but for the grand design G-d desires that he "act," as if he were alive for a while longer.


For the second we need start with your sentence we still see G-d meddling
> with man's choice in such a way as to make that man wicked.


G-d did not make Pharaoh wicked. That was a free-will choice that Pharaoh exercised up until that point. From here on in, Pharaoh was getting battered by the plagues. In order to provide him with an even field in which to continue exercising his free-will, God "had to" harden his heart. Otherwise, Pharaoh would have just buckled under to the pressure.


I hope that this has been helpful.


By the way, if you live in the US/Canada and are interested in expanding the knowledge of your Jewish heritage by trying out one-on-one Jewish learning, I would be happy to arrange this for you. Any subject can be learned, by phone or in person, at a time that's good for you. This service is absolutely free. Just write back, and I'll work on arranging a suitable situation for you.


With blessings from Jerusalem,


Rabbi M. Younger
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