Today, May 9, 1945, WWII officially ended. The most monstrous murderer of the Jews and other nations was squished. The slaughter of our people was brought to an end. Creation of the State of Israel became possible. Why do we not celebrate it? Should we not feel gratitude to those Jews and non-Jews who made it possible? To those who fought against the Nazi, even if the rescue of the Jews was the last thing on their minds?

B"H

Alex,

Your question has been answered in the Talmud (Shabbos 13b). But before I tell you what is written there, I will proceed with a small introduction.

In Israel, during the second Temple period, whenever the nation was miraculously delivered from our enemies, a date of memorial or recognition was written down, to be observed by the people in commemoration of their deliverance. The book that contained a record of these events and of Israel's miraculous deliverance on those specified days was called, "Megillas Taanis." It was written in the Aramaic language, and is referred to in many places throughout the Mishnah and Talmud. (see: Mishnah Taanis 2:8; Tosefta Taanis 2:4; Babylonian Talmud, Rosh Hashana 18b; Babylonian Talmud, Shabbos 13b; Jerusalem Talmud, Taanis 12b, etc. etc.)

The significance of this "Scroll of Fasting," as it was called, was that on each day mentioned therein and wherein had occurred a miracle, it was forbidden unto all Jews on those days to engage in either fasting (Aramaic: להתענאה) or in mournful dirges (Aramaic: למספד). For example, one of these days was "the day of Nicanor," observed on the thirteenth day of Adar, in commemoration of Israel's victory over a general by that name who fought against Israel in the days of the Hasmonaeans.

Towards the end of that period, the Sages of that era decided to cancel the "Scroll of Fasting." (Rosh Hashana 18b). We find the following discourse in the Talmud (Shabbos 13b):

The early Sages taught:

"Who wrote the 'Scroll of Fasting?'"

They answered: "Chananiah, the son of Chezkiah, and his party, for they had admiration for troubles." (i.e. troubles from which Israel had been delivered)

Rabban Shimon, the son of Gamliel, then said: "We also have admiration for troubles, but what can we do? For if we should assay to write down [all of our troubles], we could never complete the task."

A different explanation was given, namely: "An imbecile is never insulted." (Meaning, our generation has lost its sensitivity to the importance of those days, just as an imbecile does not respond to insult.)

Another explanation was given, namely: "The flesh of a dead man does not feel the cutting edge of the blade." (Meaning, our generation has become so dull in its senses, that it doesn't recognise any bad thing that passes over it, let alone any miracle!) END.

So, Alex, in answer to your question, the end of the holocaust is but one miraculous deliverance out of many. If men have forgotten the former, they will also forget the latter. Besides, many holocaust survivors will actually rail on G-d, rather than praise G-d for their deliverance. They see it in a different light, how that many hundreds of thousands of Jewish souls were snatched away at that time. They are bitter, and even less prone to see the event as a cause for rejoicing.

Sincerely,
David

David, shalom.

Yes, I understand. But if we forget recent deliverances, then how can we remember the not-so-recent ones? Should we become a nation that only remembers the bad that happened to us? Or should we remember and be grateful for the good that happened to us? When the Soviet Army - antisemitic, as all Soviet institutions - came to liberate the death camps in Poland, did the survivors think that the goyim came without any real intent (all pretense, as der Alter Rebbe had taught) to make their life better, even if they (the goyim) were giving out bread, and soup, and clothing, and provided medical attention? Or did they (survivors) feel gratitude to Hashem for having finally delivered them through the hands of these goyim? I tend to think it was the latter.

By forgetting the Yom Sof haShoah, we are in a sense betraying those who were rescued, and those who made the rescue a fait accompli, and betraying those who delivered the final blow to the Nazi regime and brought it to justice .

A better question is why we don't properly memorialize the Shioah itself. This issue is discussed at length by HaGaon Rav Yom Tov Haleivi Schwartz Shlit"a in his sefer Einayim Lirot.* HaRav Schwartz devotes Chapter 21 of Einayim Lirot to the failure of our generation to establish an annual day of fasting, mourning and repentance on account of the Shoah, an omission which he considers a grievous collective sin of cruel indifference. HaRav Schwartz identifies and analyzes undisputed halachic precedents for the enactment of public fast days (with inclusion of Aneinu in Amida and Kriat Hatorah of Vayechal) even for more limited Jewish tragedies, such as the annual fast on the 20th of Sivan observed for centuries in European Jewish communities to commemorate Gezeirat Ta”ch V’Ta”t (the Chmielnicki massacres of approximately 100,000 Polish Jews during the years 5408 and 5409), which the Shach and other Torah authorities considered the Churban Shlishi (Third Destruction) of our people. With incisive halachic analysis, HaRav Schwartz debunks the excuses commonly given to justify our dereliction in this regard (e.g., that we must mourn all our tragedies on 9 B’Av; that our generation lacks the authority to enact public fasts), laying bare our shame at what amounts to a variety of “Holocaust denial” – our refusal to acknowledge the Shoah as a unique national Churban that warrants special commemoration and demands ongoing introspection and teshuvah on our parts. HaRav Schwartz also sheds the light of Tanach and Chazal on the psychological, ethical and spiritual dimensions of our response to this singular national tragedy, expanding upon themes such as the Chilul Hashem inherent in our continuing exile, the excruciation of losing Talmeidei Chachamim, and the prophetic condemnation of complacency in the wake of calamity. Throughout his discussion, HaRav Schwartz is particularly pained by the ease and enthusiasm with which the post-Holocaust generations have returned to smug and often excessive pursuit of wealth, comfort and honor, without meaningful adjustments in lifestyle, character traits, observance or values, as if noting happened. HaRav Schwartz is one of our greatest contemporary sages, a treasure of our people, whose teachings on this and other subjects should be widely studied, preached and taken to heart.
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*HaRav Schwartz, one of the major poskim of our time, is also the author of a number of important halachic works, including Maaneh L’Igrot and Shu”t Adnei Nechoshet. Einayim Lirot is available in an excellent English translation under the title Eyes to See: Recovering Ethical Torah Principles Lost in the Holocaust (Urim Publications 2004).

quote:

Originally posted by Alex:
Today, May 9, 1945, WWII officially ended. The most monstrous murderer of the Jews and other nations was squished. The slaughter of our people was brought to an end. Creation of the State of Israel became possible. Why do we not celebrate it? Should we not feel gratitude to those Jews and non-Jews who made it possible? To those who fought against the Nazi, even if the rescue of the Jews was the last thing on their minds?

I think I agree with you, Alex.
While I am still deeply upset by the knowledge I have of the holocaust, the black and white movies filmed by the army of evil comes first to my mind, I do believe we need to acknowledge God's hand in finally ending it.
Why? Because it is written, "If you will not give thanks........I will cease my rain upon your land, etc."
I think it applies to more than just farming, it also applies to other things which god gives us.

I will start now:

Thank you, YHVH, for saving the souls that you saw fit to spare from the death their enemies wished to give to them. And thank you for re-establishing Israel in 1948, the only nation that we know about to be re-established. Thank you for helping me and my family with my own little tragedies/challenges. Very much. And thank you for Alex, who reminded us that we have much to be thankful for. The curse has ended, the blessings begin. Israel is indeed at a status to rival her former glory. Once a farming nation, now a producer of technology, a restorer of ecosystems, a leader in every area of science. Thank you, avinu tamid, for caring for us.

quote:

Israel is indeed at a status to rival her former glory. Once a farming nation, now a producer of technology, a restorer of ecosystems, a leader in every area of science.

But, unfortunately, not a lover of Torah and its Chachamim.

Hawke, thanking Hashem for Alex was extraneous. The rest is wonderful.

quote:

Originally posted by Yisroel Phillips:

quote:

Israel is indeed at a status to rival her former glory. Once a farming nation, now a producer of technology, a restorer of ecosystems, a leader in every area of science.

But, unfortunately, not a lover of Torah and its Chachamim.

But that's only a piece of the puzzle. If we do not feel loving gratitude to Hashem for rescuing our nation, how can we love Torah and its Chachamim? It all starts in gratitude.

Hashem took us out of slavery, we were grateful, and we agreed to "do and listen" what the Torah says. Hashem stopped the slaughter of innocent men, women, and children, we are not grateful - and the result is your bitter but fair remark.

That wasn't my point, Alex. The religious communities in Israel have a daily struggle with the secular Government and the even more secular Supreme Court to maintain some semblance of Torah values in the State as a whole. I don't know that this is a result of ingratitude.

Yisroel,

I must disagree in part. The State is the only place on the planet where Judaism is funded as it is. At the same time, Israel without the Torah will soon cease to exist and whatever comes next will either be Jewish in values and practice or entirely Muslim. The recent elections definitively showed how Herut's grandchildren do without Judaism.

Joseph

Do we really want to mix politics and religion? Judaism is a way to live adhering to the moral and ethical standards; there is no ethics in politics. Look at the theocratic states all around Israel: they have twisted and spun their religious books so as to match their political needs, so that they themselves don't have a clue as to what it really tells them to do. It was so in the Christian Europe too, and not so long ago: the term "grey cardinal" did not appear out of nowhere...

The Torah and Jewish statehood are mutually inclusive.

I do not in any way, shape or form imply that they are not mutually inclusive. What I am saying is said in Pirkei Avoth 1:10 "Shemayah says, 'Love work; despise lordliness, and do not become overly familiar with the governement.'"

Inclusive? haha

Secular gov't respect those who study Torah?

Sam,

I wrote about the idea of Jewish statehood, not a state of people calling themselves Jews. In addition, reconciliation is a two-way process.

Joseph

quote:

Originally posted by Joseph Zeev:
Sam,

I wrote about the idea of Jewish statehood, not a state of people calling themselves Jews. In addition, reconciliation is a two-way process.

Joseph

I think I agree with you on that one.

Sam, since I do not live in Israel, it is hard for me to discuss such issues as respect of government to those who want to study Torah, but if I understand things correctly, those Jews in Israel who study Torah full-time do not have to serve in the army; have a representation in the Knesset, and are to a large extent funded by the government.

Please accept my apology if I am mistaken, but to me, that would be an expression of respect.

Then I suppose, that someone who is currently living in Eretz Yisrael should tell us what the real thing is. That is, both sides of the story.

Hi,

If I may suggest, the reason why we do not celebrate the end of the Shoah, is because we had an oportunity at that time to hold on a little bit longer and Moshiach would have come, however instead we were impulsive and didnt have the correct level of faith in Hashem and rushed to establish a secular state which has delayed the coming of Moshiach abd caused our long and bitter exile to continue.

Yossi, I am sorry, but I don't agree with that. Moshiach maybe would have come, but there would be no survivors left for him to save if we had waited longer. The end of Shoah is not the Yom ha-Atzmauth. The day when the survivors of the Shoah were rescued is the day that the original question was about, not the day when the "secular state" was established.

quote:

Originally posted by Joseph Zeev:
Yisroel,

I must disagree in part. The State is the only place on the planet where Judaism is funded as it is. At the same time, Israel without the Torah will soon cease to exist and whatever comes next will either be Jewish in values and practice or entirely Muslim. The recent elections definitively showed how Herut's grandchildren do without Judaism.

Joseph

G-d forbid that Israel will ever become entirely muslim. G-d Forbid. Remember His promises in Ezekiel 36:24-38 (and other places). Even so, it is clear as you have pointed out, that without Hashem's help, it would indeed be overcome. It was written and foretold that our people would be originally brought back in unbelief. But that too, is in His hands, and He is the summoner of hearts.
Respectfully,
Yocheved