Chanukah

"I see that they are really interested in our political policies.
Didn't you see how they ate the free meal we served?"

The Levush asks a famous Chanukah question: Why was a meal instituted
as part of the Purim (and other holidays) mitzva, but not on Chanukah?
Besides lighting the menorah, we celebrate Chanukah just by "thanking and
praising G-d" ? The Pri Hasadeh answers that Chanukah celebrates the Jewish
victory over the Greeks trying, even forcibly, to inculcate us with their
lifestyle and philosophy. Many Jews weren't happy about our victory.They
enjoyed not doing mitzvos !! Having a meal for Chanukah won't show that a
person is happy about Chanukah. How a person gives thanks to G-d certainly
depends on how he feels about the event and his relationship to G-d.

Whenever we do a mitzva, we should always care "about the event and our
relationship to G-d".

Have a great Shabbos and a "lichtege" Chanukah !!

Rabbi Chaim Flom
_____________________________________________________________

Well..........., maybe we're not officially supposed to have a meal on channuka, but me and the kids have a little meal that is steeped in 15 years of tradition. (Wow! hold on to your hats! 15 years!) So, okay, it's not common practice, but a "family meal" makes us feel more together for the holiday, and there are traditional foods. Ever heard of latkes? Donuts? Sufganiyote?

There, have some fun. We don't have to be legalistic all the time to observe Judaism, right?

quote:

Originally posted by Rabbi Flom:
Chanukah

"I see that they are really interested in our political policies.
Didn't you see how they ate the free meal we served?"

The Levush asks a famous Chanukah question: Why was a meal instituted
as part of the Purim (and other holidays) mitzva, but not on Chanukah?
Besides lighting the menorah, we celebrate Chanukah just by "thanking and
praising G-d" ? The Pri Hasadeh answers that Chanukah celebrates the Jewish
victory over the Greeks trying, even forcibly, to inculcate us with their
lifestyle and philosophy. Many Jews weren't happy about our victory.They
enjoyed not doing mitzvos !! Having a meal for Chanukah won't show that a
person is happy about Chanukah. How a person gives thanks to G-d certainly
depends on how he feels about the event and his relationship to G-d.

Whenever we do a mitzva, we should always care "about the event and our
relationship to G-d".

Have a great Shabbos and a "lichtege" Chanukah !!

Rabbi Chaim Flom
_____________________________________________________________

Dear Hawke,
I am sorry that what I wrote was misunderstood, and I am at fault. My dvar Torah talked about our sages not instituting a meal as part of the mitzva of Chanukah. Of course the minhag (custom)is to have a meal, to eat latkes, sufganiote,(which have enough oil to last 8 days without a miracle to commemmorate the oil burning 8 days miraculously)) and dairy products commemmorating the dairy products that Yehudis served the general to get him thirsty, he drank wine, and lost his head. Actually, a chavrusa of mine said that when he was young, his European grandmother always served milchig donuts, for both ideas. These customs and their adaptations are all brought in the halachik works throughout the centuries.
Certainly, keep up these traditions with your family, singing Maoz Tzur and playing dreidel.
Take care.
Chaim Flom

B"H
My dear Rabbi Flom,

You said: "The Levush asks a famous Chanukah question: Why was a meal instituted
as part of the Purim (and other holidays) mitzva, but not on Chanukah?"

This may, or may not, interest anyone. But the Yemenite Jews of San'a (Yemen) had it as a custom to make a festive meal on the eighth day of Chanuka.

Sincerely,
David Ben-Abraham

quote:

festive meal on the eighth day

In general, when the eight day was also Shabbos, was there any change in the celebration? Or just more so, without malacha?

Speaking of which, is there any discussion anywhere between the two types of rest -- the word Chanukah apparently is rest from the attacks, and of course Shabbos Menucha rest.

The name Noach apparently, perhaps mentioned in commentary on Peleg's naming, is one of these types of rest.

B"H
Rob,
You asked:
"In general, when the eight day was also Shabbos, was there any change in the celebration? Or just more so, without malacha?"

I'm sorry, but I do not know the answer to this question. I will have to ask some of the old-timers if they did anything special on the eighth day of Chanuka that fell on a Sabbath.

As for the word, "Chanuka" (חנוכה), it has nothing to do with rest. The word means "dedication."
Rest, on the other hand, is written as "menuchah" (מנוחה), which has obviously a different root altogether from Chanuka.

Sincerely,
David

quote:

Originally posted by David Ben-Abraham:
As for the word, "Chanuka" (חנוכה), it has nothing to do with rest. The word means "dedication."
Rest, on the other hand, is written as "menuchah" (מנוחה), which has obviously a different root altogether from Chanuka.

I will come to Rob's defence here. Whilst it is right to say that the word Chaunka means dedication, there is a drasha on the word by splitting it up as follows: חנו כה which translates to "they rested on the 25th".

B"H
My friend Yisroel,
Actually, the wording "Chanu Be - Chaf - He"
(Heb. חנו כה) means, "they camped on the twenty-fifth," which although it is insinuated here that they had rest from their enemies, the word literally means "camped."
Anyway, even though what we've said is a "dirsha" (exegesis), Rob's question seemed to suggest that there is a very literal connection between the two words, which there is not.
Your friend,
David

Reb David, you are right, but the drasha wouldn't make much sense if one translated it literally as "they camped".

BTW, I've been looking forward to seeing your picture. What has happened to it?

Kol Tuv.

Yisroel

Dear Rob, Yisroel, and David,
I enjoyed the shakla vetaria between you.Let me put in my 2 cents (or in England 2 pence). All of you are right.The Ran on Shabbos (21b) says some say it is called Chanukah because chanu chof heh. As Yisroel mentioned, that seems to mean "they rested" on the 25th.The Pri Chadash (Orach Chaim siman 770)(dealing with the famous question of the Bais Yosef of "if there was enough oil for one day and it lasted 8 days, so miracle is only 7 days?") says that the first day of chanukah is celebrated because we "rested from our enemies on the 25th". The Maharsha on Shabbos(21b) asks a question on the Ran. How can you say it means "chanu chof heh", there is no prohibition of melacha on Chanukah ?? Therefore he says Chanukah come from the word "dedication of the mizbeach". You see that he understands that "rest" should mean in the melacha sense, and not "rest from enemies". Actually to "answer" the Maharsha's question, I had a little thought but I am not sure if it really is good. The Bach (on the Tur Orach Chaim 770) says that since a miracle of Chanuka came about thru a woman (Yehudis), women accepted upon themselves (certain) Yom Tov prohibitions, they can't be lenient. He then says that the Maharil says that even men shouldn't do melacha while the candles are burning. Accordingly, maybe even according to the Maharsha's understanding that "chanu" means rest in the melacha sense, there is some validity to it.
Take care.
Chaim Flom

B"H
Rabbi Flom,
Perhaps we are getting into "Shitoth" used by the expositors of our Oral Teachings, but when the Ran on Shabbos (21b) says "some say it is called Chanukah because chanu be-chof heh," this is still a "dirshah" (exegesis) in my estimation. Haven't we learned somewhere: "Ain Maksheem 'Al Ha-Darshan???" Which ever way you look at it, it's still a play on words, which seems to be the quintessence of what exegesis is all about! It's always hard to raise an objection about what was brought down to us by way of exegesis. On the other hand, this seems to have become fashionable by scholars over the last five-hundred years.
Sincerely,
David

quote:

Originally posted by David Ben-Abraham:
B"H
Rabbi Flom,
Perhaps we are getting into "Shitoth" used by the expositors of our Oral Teachings, but when the Ran on Shabbos (21b) says "some say it is called Chanukah because chanu be-chof heh," this is still a "dirshah" (exegesis) in my estimation. Haven't we learned somewhere: "Ain Maksheem 'Al Ha-Darshan???" Which ever way you look at it, it's still a play on words, which seems to be the quintessence of what exegesis is all about! It's always hard to raise an objection about what was brought down to us by way of exegesis. On the other hand, this seems to have become fashionable by scholars over the last five-hundred years.
Sincerely,
David

Dear David,
I am terribly sorry that I never responded to your question. My weekly dvar Torah is posted in the "parsha" section of Globalyehiva, so I don't usually check the "holiday" section. Today, I posted a Pesach dvar Torah, so I noticed it. Sorry.
The Gemara uses the term "ayn mayshivim behekeisha" which means that if the Gemara has a hekeish-a type of drasha that they have a tradition about, you can't ask a question on it because that was the tradition from Sinai. There is an expression in the Rishonim that says "ayn makshim ba'agada" or "ayn mayshivim al hadrash" or the Tikkunei Zohar's expression of "ayn mayshivim al hahagada" which all mean basically that if you have a halachic Gemara and a Medrash that conflict, that the Gemara prevails. The phrase you used "ayn makshim al hadarshan" which means "you can't ask a question on the one who makes a drasha", means that a person can make up a reading in a Possuk or Chazal (poetic licence) to show a true point.(Which is not like some limudim in Chazal which they had a tradition from Sinai about.) The Maharsha's question on the Ra'n was that the POINT OF THE RA'N wasn't true. (Actually, the Ra'n wasn't even saying it was a drasha. He was saying that the word "Chanuka" WASN'T from the word "dedication", but rather from the word "rested" contracted with the number 25.This point was contested by the Maharsha.)
Have a Chag Sameach.
Chaim Flom