I have a couple of general questions on pirsumei Nisa (Publicising the miracle).



1) Does the mitzva of pirsumei mitzva only apply to publicising the miracle to other Jews, or does it include non Jews too?

2) Is pirsumei Nisa related to the number of people that see your lights or the amount of time they see the lights?

Now I have a particular question, the answer to which will be related to the answers to the above I presume.



The SHulchan Aruch states that the minhag in shul on Motzei Shabbat Chanukah is to light the Chanukiah before making Havdalah, the explanation given by the Mishna Berurah is because of publicising the miracle. So...

1) Wouldn't the mitzva be as publicised after Havdalah as before? Why is it more of a pirsumei mitzvah to do the lighting before havdalah?

2) Surely the mitzvah would be publicised more through individuals lighting their chanukiot than one chanukah being lit in the shul. Why, therefore, do we have to light a chanukiah in shul at all?

No one mentions pirsum hanas for non-jews. Considering the gemara, the fear was non-jews would see it.

quote:

Is pirsumei Nisa related to the number of people that see your lights or the amount of time they see the lights?

The only time mentioned is that it should be the time that people are returning from the shuk. There is a famous story of an Israeli Rav who use to relight his candles at nine o'clock so the people coming from the movies would see them.

quote:

Wouldn't the mitzva be as publicised after Havdalah as before? Why is it more of a pirsumei mitzvah to do the lighting before havdalah?

There are minhagim to do it either way. The idea of lighting before havdalah is that everyone would run home and no one would see the lighting of the chanukah candles.

The reason for lighting the candles in the shul is not known. One can conclude that since everyone gives a different explanation. The one that most appeals to me, is like similar to saying kiddush in the shul, we are lighting for visitors or people who can't or would otherwise not do it.
Judiasm is what Jews do. The Rabbis sometime take a few hundred years to find a reason.

Aryeh Shore

B"H
Michael,
You asked:
"The SHulchan Aruch states that the minhag in shul on Motzei Shabbat Chanukah is to light the Chanukiah before making Havdalah, the explanation given by the Mishna Berurah is because of publicising the miracle. So...

1) Wouldn't the mitzva be as publicised after Havdalah as before? Why is it more of a pirsumei mitzvah to do the lighting before havdalah?"
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
This is simply because people in the shul have already distinguished between holy and profane in their prayers, so it is not absolutely necessary to rush off to do Havdalah before lighting the candles.
Moreover, if you wait in the shul until after making the Havdalah, people will rush off to get home, and not all of them will stay behind to see the lighting of the candles. It was deemed better, in this regard, to first make the lighting of the candles for "pirsum haness," than vice-versa.
By the way, although this was the Jewish custom in most places, including Yemen and Syria, the custom in both Cairo and Alexandria (Egypt) was to say Habdalah first, both in
the synagogue and at home.

Sincerely,
David

B"H
Oh, and another reason we do this is because the initial Mitzvah is to light the Chanuka candles at dusk, and before "she-techleh regel min hashuk" (before the last foot leaves the market-place). Now since it is a commandment to also add a part of the profane day unto the holy day at Motzei Shabbat (Mosifim min Hachol el Ha-Qodesh), this would naturally bring us to almost the limit when the candles were supposed to be lit. So then it was only natural to begin as early as possible, especially when taking into consideration the reasons mentioned in my previous post.
- David

Thanks

But what I still don't understand is how a MINHAG of a RABBINIC Mitzvah (lighting the lights before havdalah in shul) can seemingly override an ISSUR DERAISA of breaking shabbat.

In other words, isn't it safer to say it should be lit after havdalah?

B"H
Michael,
That's just it! You're not overriding any "Issur De-Oraitha," because we all add a small portion of what was profane, or that which belonged to the upcoming week day, to the Sabbath day itself while it is recessing (i.e. on Motzei Shabbath). We have also all made mention of "Havdala" in our prayers, so that now the Sabbath, in all respects, is behind us. So when it comes to lighting the Chanukka candles, no one has infringed upon the commandment. The rush is to light them during their proper hour!
Sincerely,
David Ben-Abraham