I was posting is general terms, not specific to this particular problem. I did understand his particular situation and assumed you ahad already answered it.

PostScript: It is possible to raise non-Jewish children in a Jewish home. They don't have to become Jews. They can remain "Shabbat Goyim". I think that was clear in my post.

quote:

Originally posted by MosheYisraeli:
PostScript: It is possible to raise non-Jewish children in a Jewish home. They don't have to become Jews. They can remain "Shabbat Goyim". I think that was clear in my post.

Please define Shabbos Goyim and your source for this term.

The term "Shabbos Goy" gets bandied about as if it had some sort of legal validity.

As far as I am aware, the Shabbos Goy of old was someone who came into people's houses on Shabbos to light/stoke up the fire when it was cold. Because it involved health issues, a non-Jew was permitted to do this

As a general rule, however, a non-Jew may not perform any Melocho for a Jew on Shabbos, nor may a Jew benefit from any Melocho performed by a non-Jew (these are 2 separate prohibitions).

I also don't understand the connection, hence my post.

A Shabbos Goy has been used in our shul to perform certain tasks on behalf of the community, and I believe can even be asked to do things, such as carry a key, turn off an alarm system, or help to wheel someone's wheelchair.

I believe that since they were pre-hired for these functions it may become for their own benefit to do some of these things.

And even without a pre-arrangement there apparently are some things on behalf of a community that they can be asked to do.

So how does one go about teaching their non-Jewish children how to become a Shabbos Goy without transgressing the command to not teach Torah to a gentile?

And are there perhaps other aspects of being a Noachide (righteous gentile suitable to dwell among us) which can be practiced all week which a Jewish man who has non-Jewish children can and should teach them?

If I have a friend or relative in such a situation, how can I know whether I want his children to play with my children?

If there is a gentile child who is being raised confused about their identity, maybe something awkward would happen... my children who know its a big aveira to embarass someone might not know what to do if a gentile claims to be Jewish or half-Jewish, whatever that might mean.

Or a Jewish man whom we might hope to become awakened to his rich heritage of mitzvos might become embarassed if he hasn't properly dealt with the situation in which he finds himself.

So, getting back to the original point of this thread... some of us may have to deal with fellow yidden in such a circumstance... and I think it would be helpful to have some guidance to give them.

Reffering to earlier posts which established the facts of this situation
How can we even be discussing if these children should be Shabbos Goyim (I still don't understand what it means but let's go with the term) when the father is not a Shabbos Jew. As I stated earlier; before dealing with how to bring up his children he needs to deal with his own issues.

MK Fink:
I'm sorry the discussion got convoluted. When I brought up the issue of raising goy children in a Jewish home, it was a hypothetical presumption that the father actually was an observant Jew. In the case of a father who is not an observant Jew everything is irrelevant.

About Shabbat Goy; you are correct that it's an archaic designation but I understand to mean a goy who lives among Jews and understands some basic Jewish laws and will help Jews, in a pinch, out of his/her own initiative. True, a Jew cannot tell a goy to do a melacha on Shabbat. However, before thermostats were invented, if a goy, seeing the house was getting too hot, turned down the furnace without the Jew requesting it, that's acceptable. This was traditionally the role of a Shabbat Goy. In my illustration earlier I used "shabbat goy" tongue in cheek. But my point was that they would living as goyim in a Jewish environment, without the yoke of Torah but very aware of it.

It is important to read ther previous posts.
You have postulated that he was divorced; he is not. You have postulated that he is observant; he is not. You have defined the term of "children as Shabbos Goyim" almost identically to the term of "bringing up his children as noachides"; which is where this conversation was originally.
Should he bring up his children as Noachides. My answer was and remains; he should seek guidance from a torah-observant and compassionate Rav that can help him understand himself. Once he is at peace with his Judaism he may be able to start figuring out what to do whith the non-Jewish children that he brought into the world.

If he is not an observant Jew everything is irrelevant. He can raise them as goyish as he is. If and when he becomes observant then this issue can be raised.

In a non-observant Jewish household there would be no concept of a "Shabbat Goy". So would they be Noachide? I don't know. Noachide is a specific designation given to people who have committed to living the 7 Noachide laws pursuant to a din from a Jewish beit din. So strictly speaking that would not apply here. The entire household, if there is no Jewish observance, is a goyish household....even though the man of the house is a Jew.

quote:

Originally posted by MosheYisraeli:
If he is not an observant Jew everything is irrelevant. He can raise them as goyish as he is. If and when he becomes observant then this issue can be raised.

Moshe, I think you summed it up very well, and there is nothing more to discuss on this topic unless the father/husband of the house is interested in becoming observant.

BS"D

I agree to Sam's reply. Being or not being observant does not change one's task's in life. One of the task of a jew is to let the goyim keep the mitsvod bne noach. If this happens to be one's children so be it. There is always hope for the jew to become chozer (ret) betshuva.