quote:

Originally posted by Baruch:
And what if one moves to a community where women go half naked would that also be more tznius to go that way.

If one thinks that a sheitel is not appropriate than she shouldn't wear it anywhere. Get the other women in the community to change their ways.

I was basing my premise on the book Ohz V'hadar L'vusha (I'm pretty sure I just mangled the spelling of the book) which states that one should match what the other women in the community wears as long as one is NOT compromising their modesty. So, if one does not wear stockings and moves to a new community where everyone does wear stockings it would be appropriate for the said individual to begin wearing stockings. About the sheitl, I was thinking about the Lubavitch women who were greatly encouraged by their Rebbe zt"l to wear sheitlach. They in turn encourage other women to wear sheitlach and their reasons have to do with being more tznius by blending in - instead of being the only tichled head in the crowd (so to speak). (I am not Lubavitch, by the way, merely a simple Torah Jew who is trying to learn and grow).

quote:

Originally posted by Rivkaleah:
isn't there something to be said about following the minhag of the community in which you live?...

The short answer to your question is yes, to a certain extent there is something to be said about following the minhag of the community in which you live. That is the essence of modesty-meaning not standing out from the others around you.

Of course, if you take this concept to its logical conclusion, then Baruch is correct. Be careful what you wish for.

I heard directly from Rabbi Moshe Meir Weiss, Shlita [author of Passionate Judaism ] that it is interesting to note that the Hebrew letters of the word "Minhag" - Mem, Nun, Hey, Gimmel - is also the same letters, just backwards, as the word "Gehinnom". A custom is so powerful that one should not play games with them.

[This is a repost, I first posted this quote on this thread: Minhagim question:]

one could also say some custom can lead one into Gehinnom by thinking one is following the Halchakah. as it is taught in Pirkat Avot D'Rabbi Natan.

one speaks of hte modesty of hte commenty therefore one should follow it. so if the community is imodesty and wear next to nothing should one wear that as well. for surely keeping oneself completely covered brings attention to them. of course one shouldn't by this same token if it is one Darche to wear a head covering that is not a wig so to should they do so. for a in honesty what is the difference between a wig and not wearing a wig in the eyes of appearence.

the issue is not a matter of Halacha, since both are accpeted the issue is which Haskofah (sp) is preferable.

quote:

Originally posted by Mack K:
one speaks of the modesty of the community therefore one should follow it. so if the community is immodest and wears next to nothing should one wear that as well.

I believe that if the community wears next to nothing, that defines the standards of modesty of that community. So by that community's standards, wearing next to nothing is considered modest dress. (as a practical matter, I would venture to say that if one chooses to wear more than "next to nothing" in such a community, they would not be violating standards of modesty)

quote:

I believe that if the community wears next to nothing, that defines the standards of modesty of that community.

Given that there are halachos defining what are standards of modest dress, I think that the principle you are using has to be bounded to apply only when apparent community standards are within established halacha do they have the weight of a community standard.

ROB,

I was replying to Mack. He was asking a paradoxical question: On the one hand a person should be modest. OTOH, a person should follow the community standards. What if the community's standards are immodest? Should a person follow them and not be modest?

My point in my response to Mack was that if a person follows the standards of the community, he is being modest. If everyone in the community dresses (or doesn't dress) in the same way, that defines the standards of modesty, not immodesty of that community. Mack's question inherently did not refer to any minimal objective halachos of tznius.