Greetings all,
I have a family member married to a non jewish person. After fourteen years the wife is wearing a head covering and has become modest. She wants her husband to convert, but he does not want to. She is struggling and very torn. She will not leave her husband, but it is making her act very strange living like she is now. Her children go to a jewish school and then are great. This is a very hard situation and I would like some advise as to how to talk to her.
Thanks for the help
Sheri

It seems to be a very difficult situation indeed, plus not knowing the people involved makes the overall situation harder to figure out. but, generaly speaking, it's sometimes better not to get to upfront to her about it. Even though it's definitly an Aveirah, which cannot be condoned, yet just like we need to sat something when it would be accepted, we need not to say anything when it won't be accepted. i'm sure she knows it's wrong, it's just at this point she doesn't have the courage to go to the next level and leave her spouse, which I can imagine would be a terrible choice. You must sum up the situation that it may be the best thing to let things go and let her get out of it herself, ebcause maybe it will have the reverse affect and push her and the children away from Torah and Mitzvos.

Many men are afraid of the pain of circumcision, which stops them from converting. At least he agrees to raise their children Jewish... And he may be a very good person; so why tear the family into pieces. Does he let her keep a kosher home, or does he insist on having a porkchop cheeseburger every Saturday? Do they celebrate Jewish holy days? Does he respect her?

Slightly off the topic, but does a women married to a non jew have to cover her hair?

My sympathy though, and i wish her strength in her difficult situation.

Her husband does respect her, and she does keep a kosher home. Her children go to a jewish school but she is very confused. When she talks to me things that come out of her mouth sounds like she is reading it right from a book. I believe that faith is very important but someone is brainwashing her. She has lost 90pounds in three months and act so differently. I have told her that the chemicals in her body are reacting now because of her fast weight loss. She has changed so much and does not have a lot of self confidence. She needs to fisically be with people that feel the same way that she does. Whoever is talking to her is telling her to take baby steps and her husband will not go thru the change. I think that if someone loves you they will do whatever it takes to make your family whole.

Thanks for your responses
Shabbot Shalom

Dear Sheri, I suspect her problem is not that she is married to a non-Jew. Her husband respects her; they keep kosher; I am sure they celebrate all holidays and keep Shabbat. her problem I think is that she delved into superobservance ahead of her family support; it's like diving without an oxygen tank. Jewish life is all about family. If my family life were suffering from my observance, I would cut down on observance, not on family life.

From what you say, she is under a very strong influence in her shul, which she cannot break out of. Perhaps she needs to change shul? Perhaps she needs to talk to her Rabbi? Don't people she sees at the shul notice that she has lost 90 pounds in three months? Or maybe a person in her shul in charge of family life? I don't know, maybe somebody at sisterhood? Perhaps you could invite yourself to go with her to her shul, to listen to the Rabbi, to talk to the people around her. That would give you a better picture of what's going on.

She doesn't have to become a martyr: nobody is pulling her away from being Jewish, and that's the only condition when a Jew must choose martyrdom. Preservation of life is the primary mitzvah in Judaism...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Alex,

I am besides myself. My friends husband not will not let her take any classes relating to being Jewish. He said that when she does she acts funny. I told her why are you listening to him. You told me that G-D comes first. She is giving to much respect to a person that has none for her and I am fed up. Because of his attitude her children do not respect her and tease her about what she believes. I am unable to get to her.
Please help!!!!!!!!!!!

Her husband has no respect for her at all. I am besides myself. My friends husband not will not let her take any classes relating to being Jewish. He said that when she does she acts funny. I told her why are you listening to him. You told me that G-D comes first. She is giving to much respect to a person that has none for her and I am fed up. Because of his attitude her children do not respect her and tease her about what she believes. I am unable to get to her.
Please help!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess what I am trying to say is that her husband is not being respectful of her. She has the right to practice her religion in whatever way she wants but he is stopping her from doing it. If your mate does not respect you then what kind of a relationship do you have. G-D should come first and if he is stopping her from her feelings perhaps she should take the kids and leave him

quote:

Originally posted by Sheri:
Her husband has no respect for her at all. I am besides myself. My friends husband not will not let her take any classes relating to being Jewish. He said that when she does she acts funny. I told her why are you listening to him. You told me that G-D comes first. She is giving to much respect to a person that has none for her and I am fed up. Because of his attitude her children do not respect her and tease her about what she believes. I am unable to get to her.
Please help!!!!!!!!!!!

Sheri, when you say, "I am unable to get to her" - what do you mean? unable to get to her emotionally or physically?

G-d comes first, but He often acts much, much more subtly than we would expect; and who are we to expect anything from G-d? In order to learn the ways of G-d we sometimes have to unclutter the pathways first. Our soul needs to be in that quiet place, where it can listen without anything hysterical. Halacha, kashruth, even lighting the candles may be meaningless if not performed with kavvanah, that is, the soul being turned toward the action being executed.

She can learn from reading books which she can find at the local bookstore; from the internet. There are so many wonderful websites. Perhaps that is what G-d wants her to do? Perhaps he wants her to take it S-L-O-W-L-Y, not rush into things. Family is the finest unit that G-d wants us to be in. The last thing He would want her to do is become a single mother of all her children immersed in the Talmud and having no time to listen to her childrens' crying and no money to get them a present on Hanukkah.

According to the law it is forbidden for her to be living with a gentile and she should separate herself from him as soon as possible. Until then she will not be able to think straight. After that if he wants to convert that is up to him but it it must be for the sake of being Jewish and not just to get married to her.

Children belong with the Mother. The Mother holds the home together. If the husband loves his family he will come around, I guess it will just take a while.

I do talk and see her but it is hard just to sit by and watch. You are 100% correct. This is what she has been doing, reading and doing what she thinks is right. I just get upset that her husband has any hold over her.

Thank you for your opinion, it has made me think.

You do not have to be orthodox to feel G-D and be a spiritual person. That is what is wrong with the world some people think there is only one way to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Sheri:
You do not have to be orthodox to feel G-D and be a spiritual person. That is what is wrong with the world some people think there is only one way to go.

Yes, Sheri. There is one G-d, but there are an infinite number of ways to get to Him.

You do not have to be orthodox to live torah! All of us are Jews regardless if we are reformed, conservative,orthodox or reconstructionist. People need to just be concerned with their own lives and let others just live.

Quote: "quote:
Originally posted by Sheri:
You do not have to be orthodox to feel G-D and be a spiritual person. That is what is wrong with the world some people think there is only one way to go.


Yes, Sheri. There is one G-d, but there are an infinite number of ways to get to Him."

This is a tremendous assumption. I wonder why you came to such a conclusion. In real life we know this is not true. For instance, maybe "there is more than one way to skin a cat." Yet, all the ways are quite similar, not infinite by no means, or close to it, and they all follow basic rules. There are not too many ways to drive a car (that you wouldn't get a ticket or end up in jail or end up in the grave.)The same goes by flying a plane, playing baseball and playing the violin. All of life has certain rules that one must obide by in order to function. There are certain leeways that may exist, but basically there is some narrowed down rules that you must follow in order that they should work. SO what is logic behind assuming that there must be infinite ways to get to G-d?

I think the problem is, that in the physical world, we get to see what works and what doesn't very fast. If you don't drive a car the right way, you'll find out quick enough. The same applies when you bake a cake the wrong way, as soon as you put your teeth into it you can tell. In the spiritual world the results are not felt in the physical world right away, so it can be ignored by saying that this too is a right way of doing things. But, it's not proof that it's the right way, and especially since we see nothing else works that way either.

Rav Chaim,

I hear your discord with what I said, which is understandable. Of course, there is one way to drive a car, but how many driving styles do you normally see on the road? And how many roads are there that will take you from point A to point B? The "my-way-or-highway" (pardon the pun) approach doesn't always work when you are dealing with live human beings.

We all are in different stages of our journey to G-d. True, you can only draw a single straight line from point A to point B, but in Sheri's friend's case, such straight line is cluttered by the circumstances of her life. And there are an infinite number of curved lines connecting from point A to point B.

Yes, Orthodox Judaism is the straightest way to G-d. Yes, we should all yearn for being on this path. But not all Jews can get there: Sheri's friend cannot, for one. What's better for her: to destroy her family and have her children confused about their heritage - or to tough it out, make the children as Jewish as she can under the circumstances and then pray that when they grow up they will start from where she got them and find their way to the straight road to G-d? The movie Sunshine by a Jewish-Hungarian director Istvan Sabo comes to mind.

Sheri's friend needs a lot of solace, understanding, and compassion. She obviously would like to live a more pious life of devotion to G-d than does her husband. It is, indeed, what usually happens in the majority of interfaith marriages. At least her husband allowed her to get their children to go to Jewish schools. At least he is open-minded enough to accept Judaism as a way of life in his family. She needs to make her mind: what is more important: a loving husband and children - or a life of solitude in devotion to G-d? Last time I checked, there were no Jewish monasteries for women...

quote:

Originally posted by Rav Chaim:
This is a tremendous assumption. I wonder why you came to such a conclusion. In real life we know this is not true. <...> All of life has certain rules that one must obide by in order to function. There are certain leeways that may exist, but basically there is some narrowed down rules that you must follow in order that they should work. SO what is logic behind assuming that there must be infinite ways to get to G-d?

If I may, I would like to answer from the point of view of what mathematicians call optimization problems. We are at point A. Our target (purpose in life, knowledge of Hashem's ways, etc") is at point B. We have a set of rules by which we can get from point A to point B. These rules include a list of permitted pathways and a list of prohibited pathways. These rules include the Halacha. These rules include the circumstances of our lives at point A, which will be different at points C, D, E, etc.

Now we look at the equations and see that there are a number of ways by which we can get from A to B. However, one road will get us there through marrying this wonderful person, whose only problem is he was not born into our faith, but he is willing to raise our children Jewish, observe the holidays, etc. At point A, it seems OK; just a small detour. But then it turns out that this detour has brought us to point C, from which there is no highway to take us to point B: just a gravel road running almost parallel to the original road from A to B. This is where Sheri's friend (family member) is at now. She can break off, turn around and get the car back to the original road, leaving her family in the woods without transportation - or she can keep going, seeing the highway nearby, and hoping that the children will get to that highway.

quote:

<...> In the spiritual world the results are not felt in the physical world right away, so it can be ignored by saying that this too is a right way of doing things. But, it's not proof that it's the right way, and especially since we see nothing else works that way either.

No, of course it is not proof that it's the right way. But if the way brings us - even if a little - closer to G-d, at least we are moving in the right direction; wouldn't you agree?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Alex,

Alex,
You stated that Orthodox Judaism is the straightest way to G-d. Says whom? This is the problem with people thinking they are holyier than everyone else. All Jews are good and will please G-D. I think there is a saying about tossing the first stone. Where I live our community is trying to bridge that gap that so many Orthodox are trying to keep. We all need to get along and stop judging others.