Dear Sherri,
You wrote “You stated that Orthodox Judaism is the straightest way to G-d. Says whom? “ Then you wrote “All Jews are good and will please G-D. “ But couldn’t Alex turn around and also ask “says whom?” It’s a fair question. Are you trying to say there are no standards at all, and all could do what they want and it will please G-d. Are you inferring then that Torah doesn’t have any meaning, because any meaning that anybody wants to squeeze into it (whether or not it fits into it or not) must be accepted as acceptable. In an earlier post you wrote “You do not have to be orthodox to live torah! All of us are Jews regardless if we are reformed, conservative,orthodox or reconstructionist. People need to just be concerned with their own lives and let others just live.” Why stop there. Once you’re on a roll, say that Christians also live Torah. How about Bhuddists? Why don’t you add atheists? Since, according to your criteria of someone living by the Torah, that “People need to just be concerned with their own lives and let others just live”, then it equally applies to the aforementioned classes of people.

I invite you to a debate about finding the reality of Judaism, either like you, that everything is acceptable, or like me, that it has some definition. If your position is based on rational logic, which I’m sure someone must have spent many hours to think about it and come to such a position (can’t imagine someone would make the most important decision in their life without giving much thought to it) then it shouldn’t be hard to articulate your position.

Since the ball is in my court, I will start out with a few observation. First lets get straight which is the original Judaism. The oldest of the non Orthodox “branches” is reform. It was founded a little over 200 years ago by Moses Mendleshon. Yet we know that Orthodox Judaism, as we know it as from the days of the Talmud, was thousands years old. It is obvious that Orthodoxy was the original religion while all the others where just founded lately as a loose copy of Orthodoxy.

I will say another proof. How can you claim that everybody lives the life by Torah. How can you claim that pork eaters live their life according to the Torah if the Torah expressively says it’s prohibited. The same to all Kosher laws. The same to the keeping of the Shabbos and all other laws that are written in the Torah and is explained in the oral Torah (the Talmud) and yet they are ignored by non Orthodox Jewery. How can you say that they live their life by the Torah

Please respond to these questions and please post your own proofs to your position

(To Alex: I agree to most of your explanations, there is some that I must differ, but for now I would like to keep this discussion concentrated on this topic for obvious reasons.)

Rav Chaim, - and I know I am now between the rock and the hard place - I think you are again talking about the "my faith is bigger (older, more righteous, etc) than your faith" argument. Such argument will get this debate nowhere. There is a reason why we - even the most pious of us - are commanded to say Shema at least twice a day, and that reason is not that we somehow become idolatrous overnight. It is that we are commanded to reexamine our faith twice a day. And if we stay on the positions of the Middle Ages, we are not getting anywhere. In the Middle Ages, we had a clearly defined enemy - the Church, which was trying to convert us against our will. We had to close the doors on any thought that was not inline with what our Rabbis thought that the Sages said. In this fervor, we almost locked the Rambam out: he was in agreement with some of the philosophers! Quoting Aristotle! What a blasphemy! Such chutzpah! B"H we did not. Then we closed the doors on Baruch Spinosa. Why? Because he was trying to comprehend G-d by logic - and ultimately failed. XVIII century opened doors to a new way of Jewish thinking: the Besht and the primary concept of Hassidism: serve G-d with joy. The non-Hassidim Orthodox Jews filed petition after petition to the Tzar to prohibit this dangerous style of Judaism, calling them a cult, a sect, and a variety of other terms. B"H, 200+ years later, Hassidim and Orthodox Jews have finally agreed that they really have more in common than worth fighting over.

Rav Chaim, I envy you in a good sort of way: your world is so clear-cut that anything out of the ordinary simply either doesn't exist or is wrong and therefore should not exist either.

Reform Judaism, Conservative Judaism, Reconstructionist Judaism are all necessary steps for the Jews who want to be Jews but do not feel at this point in their lives the strength in themselves to become Orthodox. Would it be better for you if only the Orthodox Jews were Jews and the rest were heretics?

We are all different, even in the same shul there are different Jews, at different levels of piety; at different levels of comprehension; at different levels of development. With all your knowledge, you can teach those who are not at your level while making them feel better about themselves - or you can smear them, making them feel inadequate and humiliated. True, that would make them humble - but it will not make them humble before Hashem. It will make them humble before you.

Let us celebrate the diversity, not fight it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Alex,

Raybin, I am sorry; that's not exactly what I meant. Of course we should discriminate - have we done the right or the wrong thing? And we should judge - ourselves. Judging others is a slippery road, and it is too easy to fall there. But helping others to discriminate their actions and to judge themselves is, I think, what Hashem wants us to do.

Dear Alex,
If it would be true that the non Orthodox feel themselves as a stepping stone to where they are supposed to be, I would agree to you that it’s a good thing that to have them be in a place where they are comfortable until they’re ready to take the next step. This is the way of the Kiruv professionals, to let people come in slowly, at their own pace ‘till they’re ready. This is not the case here. They had made their own religions whose main purpose is to move away from the Torah, and somehow be the epitome of Judaism. If you noticed Sherri’s claim, she says they’re all equal in G-d’s eyes. She didn’t say she was on a stepping stone to the right way. She even took offense to even suggest that Orthodox is the straightest line to Hashem. This is an attitude and propaganda that their leaders put in them to lead credence to their movements. If they feel that they’re at the epitome of Judaism, then there is no way that they’ll observe eventually Judaism correctly. I definitely cannot let a statement like that fly on the Global Yeshiva unopposed, lest someone would Chas V’shalom think there is any validity to the claim or that I agree that it’s acceptable for Jews to do only what they choose, if they choose any at all. I also had to challenge it logically, so people won’t think I’m just being intolerant, but there are logical reasons to oppose it. It probably won’t convince Sheri to change her lifestyle, though at this point I don’t think much would, since I don’t think she wants to change (that’s why she’s hanging on to her cliches of that everything is equal and nobody has a right to say otherwise.) But maybe someone else would read it and have an open mind and would realize that there are logical points that I bring up, and would start questioning the propaganda and cliches that they were raised with. Similarly to all the wonderful Noahides that we have on this site, that were given reasons to doubt the dogmas of their religion that they grew up with and are following the truth. I’m usually not this challenging and in your face like, but when people make false statements like that which has a lot of potential to mislead, I feel I have an obligation to sat the

Dear Rav Chaim,

I think I understand the reasons why you said what you said. However, I think you missed the ideas behind Sheri's argument. She is - physically - losing a family member, who has lost 90 pounds because of the conflict in her life between the way she wants to live and the way she does. This is the position Sheri is coming from.

Dear Sheri, I apologize if I misinterpreted what you said, but please let me know if I did.

Sheri's point is that there are ways of serving Hashem that do not force us to lose 90 pounds. There are less demanding versions of Judaism, created to bring to G-d those whose families strayed away due to a number of circumstances.

Rav Chaim, I disagree that Reform and Conservative Judaism were created in order to steal souls from the "right" way. On the contrary, Reform Judaism was created in Germany in response to the growing number of secular Jews, to get them back to their faith, although in a modified form. Conservative Judaism was born in the US, when all these Reform Ashkenazim started coming to America, where there had been a largely Sephardic community already. Reform was so far off from what the American Jews had been used to that Conservative movement was born, to get the Jews back to the Jewish Law. Adepts of all of these forms of Judaism worship the same One G-d, in largely the same way.

Now. Congregations like Messianic Jews, Jews for Jesus, etc - these are a blasphemy, because their purpose, their raison d'etre is to pull Jews into Christianity. These are NOT Jewish congregations, and they should be opposed at all cost.

This attitude is what draws people apart. Thinking one is better that the other. From what I have been taught G-D loves all. There is not only one path but to have faith. Anything I say will not do for you because of the lifestyle you live, sorry to say a bit closed. There are many Jews out there that are searching and if they come across someone with your opinion all is your way or no way. Judasim incompasses all Jews, Reformed, Conservative, Reconstructionist, and orthodox. If someone is seeking G-D and tries to live as he says what else do you want. I will not be judged by someone with a closed mind. WE ALL COUNT!

Raybin, that's a sad story. My next-door neighbor has a similar life story: she is 75% Jewish, but it all goes along her paternal side; IOW, her maternal grandmother was not Jewish. As a result, while in Russia, she was treated as a "kike" by the Russians and as a "shiksa" by the Jews.

Hi,

I have been away from this forum for some time, but this subject is too compeling for me to ignore.

Firstly I am married to a non-Jewess and I am undergoing a process of TeShuva which is working marvelously. The Rabbi who is orientating me is Orthodox and has a much more understanding point of view and sais that I should take things gradually. HaShem will end up finding a way to preserve my marriage, educate my child and live a Jewish life.

Although I do admit that we have a happy marriage and my wife respects my choice, which has indeed made our lives much better.

Moses of all people was married to a non-Jewess as well as King David and King Solomon.

I think a big potion of the Orthodox Jewery is running away from their obligation to assist less fortunate Jews who have been brought up in non-Orthodox environments when they colour them as quasi-heretics and wicked people.

This is not true!

It is written in the Holy Books that an effort done by someone like this towards returning HaShem is as valuable, if not more, than someone just repeating what is written in the scriptures without properly analysing a situation, without attempting to walk in someone else's shoes.

What I recommend the person who is suffering because of their husbands lack of respect is dialogue. If that doesn't work and if the lack of respect is a sign of a deteriorated relationship or blunt anti-semitism, then I think it is not worthwhile pursuing with the relationship.

Just as an ending note, there is nowhere in the Torah that sais that HaShem does not desire converts, on the contrary, we say prayers for our converts.

It would seem that Judaism does not desire converts, which is simply not true. People who are properly converted can be a great addition to Judaism and should be welcomed.

And about Orthodox Judaism being faithful to ancient Judaism, I ask do we have a Temple? do we sacrifice? Do most Jews have Hebrew as their fisrt language? Where is the Kohen Gadol? the Sinedrin?

Yet most of us we continue to be Jews and continue to want to be Jews. There is no monopoly over that, there is no "I am more Jewish than you".

What Orthodox people in my view should do is to reach out with their knowledge rather than accuse people who were less fortunate than them.

Dear Sheri,
When you wrote “This attitude is what draws people apart. Thinking one is better that the other. “ First of all, what we are discussing is not who’s better, but what is right and what is wrong. You don’t think there is any right or wrong in the world. Is every action in the world is equal? Do you think murder and robbery is as good as any other action? Do you feel superior to murderers and thieves? Or we’re not allowed to think ourselves better than others. So, according to that logic, you cannot think yourself better than Saadam Huisein or Al Capone. Of course there is right and wrong. Those that do things right are better than those who does things wrong. It’s not that I want to be better than you, I wouldn’t love it any more if you would do everything right and supercede me in righteousness. The question is what is right and what is wrong. This is what I’m trying to discuss and debate with you.

When you wrote “From what I have been taught G-D loves all. There is not only one path but to have faith.” Maybe you was taught wrong. From whom did you learn this from and where did he get it from? Now someone tells you what you learnt is wrong, so now your obligation is to use your logic top figure out who’s telling the truth and who’s not. That’s why I want to have logical debate with you about it.

When you wrote ”Anything I say will not do for you because of the lifestyle you live, sorry to say a bit closed.” That’s the beauty of the forums, you’re not writing exclusively for me, neither I for you. We write for the community at large. So you should write your position, and if I don’t accept your logical arguments, so to the community I would look closed minded and irrational, similar to how you’re starting to look by not answering my basic questions. It seems you’re being very close minded by not even wanting to discuss it. Maybe you have no answer to my questions, that’s why you’re trying to ignore it. I mean, why should anyone accept a premise that seems to fly in the face of logic. If the Torah says you cannot eat pork (or any other of the 613 Mitzvos that are ignored by the non-Orthodox) and someone eats it (or transgresses all the other precepts and prohibitions), logic dictates that he’s not living his life according to the Torah. How can you accuse anybody for being closed minded for not accepting off the bat such an illogical premise that you need not keep the Torah in order to keep the Torah? Why are you so closed minded not to even consider that I might have a point and maybe I’m right?

When you wrote “There are many Jews out there that are searching and if they come across someone with your opinion all is your way or no way.” This was my original question to you. In life everything has rules and regulations and a right way and a wrong way. (Try explaining to the IRS that you have a creative way of filing your taxes and one way cannot be better than the other.) Why should Judaism be different? (See my original post for this question in detail)

When you wrote ”Judasim encompasses all Jews, Reformed, Conservative, Reconstructionist, and orthodox. “ Why do you say this? Is it because you have proofs to this or is it just wishful thinking?


When you wrote “If someone is seeking G-D and tries to live as he says what else do you want.” This is my point. You need to live by what HE says. It’s very specific what HE said, and eating pork is not what He said but against what HE said.

When you wrote “I will not be judged by someone with a closed mind.” Actually, you seemed not want to be judged at all. You want to put your head in the sand and hope that there are no major flaws in your position, even though people are pointing it out. Besides, don’t call anyone else closed-minded if you have no intention to reexamine your own position and don’t even want to defend it

To close: If you don’t want to defend you position, you shouldn’t be touting it, especially when it defies logic.

Rav Chaim, I have to disagree with your line of argument. First, nowhere does Sheri say anything about eating pork. Second, you seem to generalize quite a bit too early, before you hear what Sheri is saying. Third, - and that's a halachic question. If the doctor says that the patient has to eat pork, or consume haematogen (a cow's blood product) as a cure for a disease or a health support measure, - what's the ruling? There are a variety of liver and blood diseases (e.g., hemophilia) for which haematogen is a prescribed medicine. I mean, it's OK to drive on Shabbat if it is a medical emergency...

She must know that there are many issues here. First she is in a situation of yichud which is a dangerous thing anyway and it is a very hot topic in Jewish law. Yichud is actually forbidden. Also, she really has no bond with her husband and she should move on as best as she can. So, there are many things in which are wrong with the situation and a conversion I do not think will help. If he converts because he wants to be married to her, there is the problem that his conversion is not valid and also that he has lied before Hashem. Not a good thing. Also, she has done a dangerous thing and she must save herself or someone needs to get in there and do some kiruv.

Reb Asher, I feel I agree with you; could you please elaborate?

To Alex:
When you wrote “. First, nowhere does Sheri say anything about eating pork.“ She says (and I quote) “This is the problem with people thinking they are holyier than everyone else. All Jews are good and will please G-D.” and she says “You do not have to be orthodox to live torah! All of us are Jews regardless if we are reformed, conservative,orthodox or reconstructionist.”
She says that all Jews are good and please G-d and live Torah. Yet there are Jews who eat pork, so we must conclude that Jews who eat pork are good and please G-d and live by the Torah.

When you wrote “Second, you seem to generalize quite a bit too early, before you hear what Sheri is saying. “ I think the above quotes are enough to see what she is saying. What in the above quotes do you see as ambiguous? I think your mistaking that she's reefering to her friend and not in general. If you go over the posts I think you'll find that she switched to talking about generaly and not only how to save her friend

When you wrote”Third, - and that's a halachic question. If the doctor says that the patient has to eat pork, or consume haematogen (a cow's blood product) as a cure for a disease or a health support measure, - what's the ruling? There are a variety of liver and blood diseases (e.g., hemophilia) for which haematogen is a prescribed medicine. I mean, it's OK to drive on Shabbat if it is a medical emergency...” Of course that’s true. Even though it’s still a “sin” (according to most Rishonim), but the precept of saving one life supercedes it. But we’re talking eating pork for Sunday night dinner and driving to the beach on Shabbos, not someone in an emergency. It’s like saying if I can go through an intersection when I have a green light, I can go through a red light also.
Your friend,
Rav Chaim

Rav Chaim, when you say,

quote:

She says that all Jews are good and please G-d and live Torah

you are referring to two different states of consciousness. If we assume that all people are good, then by definition all Jews, being a sample of the entire population, are just as good, and the distribution of good and bad is the same as in the entire 6.5 billion people. So there is no contradiction there. If we assume all people to be bad, - then it's a different matter altogether, but we have to be consistent, otherwise, the statement becomes nationalistic.

Now. When Sheri said, "You do not have to be Orthodox to live Torah" - that's a different thing. Let me try to explain what she must have meant. I hope you agree that when you were a 10-year-old youngster, you did not know much of Torah and Talmud: nobody is born with all the knowledge of Talmud. Yet when your Rebe said that you were a Torah Jew, that you lived Torah, - your little boyish heart was filling with pride, and you believed him, even though you probably knew then less than 0.1% of what you know now. But relative to your stage in learning, you were as much of a Torah Jew as you are today.

Imagine now for a second that a Dr. Joseph Jew (no real person's name is intended) is a Reform Jew. Every other day, he has to go to emergencies, because he is the best physician (pediatrician, surgeon, ... you fill in the blanks) in the hospital, and to spend 20-hour shifts there. He does not know Torah as much and as well as you do: he's too busy saving lives. He grabs to eat whatever he can, and whenever he can, always on the run, and sometimes, when the restaurants are closed, it has to be a pepperoni pizza or a cheeseburger at the hospital's cafeteria. But when he can, he comes home, opens the Torah (probably a JPS translation) and reads from it, not knowing if he should say the blessings, not knowing which Parshah it is this week. He tries his best to live up to the letter of Torah. But he has no time to study, or to go to the synagogue more than a few times a year (Yom Kippur and Yahrzeits). Would you say that he is a bad Jew? That God does not love him?

I don't know. I would not be as categorical. The world has a whole scale of shades of gray in between the black and the white colors.

quote:

Your friend,
Rav Chaim

Thank you. I appreciate your friendship.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Alex,

Rav Chaim,
who you quoted: When you wrote ”Judasim encompasses all Jews, Reformed, Conservative, Reconstructionist, and orthodox. “ Why do you say this? Is it because you have proofs to this or is it just wishful thinking?

That is the kind of attitude that makes people search somewhere's else. Do you think you are better than others that you say say these things. G-D LOVES ALL. Wheather you like it or not. I am certin that you are not a perfect person.

My Father always said if we were perfect we would not be here. He was an orthodox man. He loved G-D and prayed with thillum ect. several times a day. He did not judge people but excepeted people as they were. Only G-D judges not man.

You really should sit back and think about what you are saying before typing it.

On the subject on being married to a non Jew, my friend will be ok because of her faith and not people like you that judge.

Raybin, when you say, "When I was baptized he joked and said 'You only need to do this once'" - referring to the mikveh - you basically stated the main postulate of Christianity, namely, that Jesus died to atone for all human sins; once is enough. Why do you say it was a joke?

That is not so in Judaism. We repent our sins at least once a year, on Yom Kippur. And that is not because we sin a lot. Devout Christians go to the confessionary booth even more frequently. The idea that G-d loves everybody is actually a Jewish concept rooted in Tanach. Confirmations for this are found everywhere in Judaism; the best example is in the Yom Kippur liturgy.

quote:

"When you say the person who is without sin should cast the first stone aren't you referring to a Christian Passage?"

You are right on this one; that is from one of the gospels, when JC rescued a harlot who was being stoned.

That, however, is understandable, because the gospel stories are told and written everywhere - on TV, in magazines, in newspapers. These stories, BTW, are not too far from Talmudic stories and other Pharisaic literature.

Here's a Talmudic story on the subject, though:

quote:

"When Moses ascended to heaven, he found G-d sitting and writing "forbearing." Said Moses to G-d: "Master of the Universe! Forbearing to the righteous?" Said G-d: "Also to the wicked." Said Moses: "Let the wicked perish!" Said G-d: "See now that you will need this." When Israel sinned, G-d said to Moses: "Did you not tell Me to be forbearing only toward the righteous?" Said Moses to Him: "Did You not say to me, 'Also to the wicked'?"

(Sanhedrin 111a)

When you say,

quote:

"For one thing the term Faith doesn't really exist in Judaism but it is the basis of Christianity."

- what exactly are you referring to?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Alex,

Dear Sheri,

When you wrote “That is the kind of attitude that makes people search somewhere's else” I don’t believe this. I think the opposite is true. When you show people a Judaism that is watered down, and then claim that there is no type of Judaism that is better, then the person who does not see anything worthwhile in that Judaism will obviously search other places, since there is no use searching Judaism, because it’s all the same. The proof to this is: Who’s youths are trying other religions. Is it Orthodox’s that are taught like I’m saying, or non-Orthodox, that teach like you?

When you wrote “Do you think you are better than others that you say these things. G-D LOVES ALL. Wheather you like it or not. I am certin that you are not a perfect person. “ I already explained that this is not a tug of war of who’s better than the other. It’s a question of what are the facts. Saying cliches about G-d loves all doesn’t make it so. Besides, if you catch your kid stealing and you tell her off, and she turns around and says you have no right to tell her off since you are also not perfect, would you accept that? I’m definitely not perfect, but I’m not making excuses for it. I know what I need to do and I work on it.

You wrote “My Father always said if we were perfect we would not be here. “ This is an excellent statement and I don’t think you understand the meaning of it, so I would like to explore it with you. Here are some thought provoking question on it. Hopefully you’ll answer me in your next post. Why shouldn’t we be here if we are not perfect? And what purpose is there to be here being imperfect?

You wrote about your father “He was an orthodox man. He loved G-D and prayed with thillum ect. several times a day.” According to your own theory that all branches are equal, do you think your father to be a fool? After all, if he would be just the same, why should he have spent so much time praying and saying Tihilim? He should of enjoyed life a little better, and pray twice a year. Why should he have been Orthodox? If it’s all the same he should of enjoyed life, eat what he wanted, drive when he wanted etc. So do you think he was foolish for wasting so much time on something that made no difference? (According to me, of course, he was very smart and righteous.)

When you wrote “Only G-D judges.” Well we at least agree that G-d judges. Therefore it is very important to know what G-d judges you for. That’s why we need to find out logically what he will judge you on. So when you wrote that whatever you do is fine with G-d, and I feel it’s logically not true, it would be a disservice to our readers if I did not correct this. Do you take full responsibility for telling people that they may sin and get away with it? This is an awesome responsibility. Not only will G-d judge us for our sins, but also on what we teach others to sin, so everybody else’s sin then becomes your sin. SO let us explore what G-d wants from us, so when the time comes for G-d to judge us, he’ll do so favorably. If you don’t do it, you’re putting yourself (and others that you preach to) at grave danger. So it’s very important to make sure you’re doing correctly

You wrote “You really should sit back and think about what you are saying before typing it.” I think about it a lot. To date, you have not given me any logical argument that what I’m writing is wrong, so I don’t see any reason why I should stop. Actually, I’m a Rabbi that spent over 20 years as a researcher of Judaic studies (and I’m still at it.) I know exactly what I’m saying and why it must be correct. I feel it’s my duty to inform people about the right way to perform Judaism. Think of it as a Public Service Announcement (brought to you by Global Yeshiva and The Ad Council ) It’s like announcements about smoking. I’m sure that smokers do not appreciate the anti-smoking ads, nor the drug users the anti-drug ads. Are the ones that put it out just being mean spirited (and closed minded, not open to the possibility these actions might be good for them?) I’m sure they resent them in the beginning, and it’s very painful for them, yet it has to be done. It would be easier to just claim everyone lives a healthy lifestyle, whether or not they smoke or not. But that won’t solve the problem but make it greater. Children don’t appreciate their parents’ discipline. Even though it might be painful to read my posts, but one day you’ll thank me for it.

Alex and I are arguing; What is your position? Is it a) that you hold all branches are equal and there is no use being Orthodox more than Reconstuctionist (like I understand what your saying) or b) that you feel that the other branches has a place as a stepping stone to Orthodoxy. Can you make your position clear so we don’t have to argue about it.
Thank you Raybin for 2 excellent points in your last post.

Rav Chaim,
When I wrote about the stones I wanted to see what you would say. Why do you think you are better than others and have more knowledge? It is clear that you have no peace with G-D or yourself. You only quote what others say but have no real feelings. All Jews are doing the right thing. It is not for you to say but for
G-D. You seem to think that job is now yours and not respect anyone else, if you are married I truly feel sorry for your wife and kids. What a sheltered life you must live. I do not have time to sit at the pc and go back and forth with someone that surely does not have G-D in their lives.
To the rest of you I do appreciate your comments as they are opinions.

Sheri, I think you overdid it. Your comment, "I do not have time to sit at the pc and go back and forth with someone that surely does not have G-D in their lives," was just plain mean and incorrect. Rav Chaim and his family live Torah more than you do, and more than I do. Trust me, they do have G-d in their lives. You try and live by ALL the rules of Judaism and then tell me if it is easy.

Now. That is not to say that Rav Chaim is a person with whom it is easy to argue, just as you are. Let us all stick to the subject of our discussion and not go ad hominem.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Alex,

Thank you Alex for sticking up for me. But we must remember what I said must of bothered Sheri a lot, so we must allow her some leway to vent.

The problem with Sheri is that she was fed this propaganda that nobody can be better than the other thus have a "don't confuse me with the facts" attitude. That propaganda gets sold to people because it's what people want to hear. I can do whatever I want whenever I want and nobody could be better than me. There is no reason to improve yourself at all and there is no one that cares. G-d must love whatever anybody does, except for people that actually think that the Torah mean something and actually think it should be practice. Well, those people G-d hates and are the scum of the earth for the unforgivable crime of thinking that when the Torah says you shouldn't eat pork, it actually means you can't eat pork. Thus when their propaganda is being questioned by others, telling them what they do matters, and give reasoning that they have no answer to, they panic, since someone is now waking them up to a reality that they rather not face. Sheri asked in her last post why do I feel I have more knowlege than others? Well I spent years studying the torah, so why can't I think of myself as more knowledgable than those who might (at best) have a casual look at it from time to time. Ithink it's obvious that I have more knowledge than Sheri, since she didn't even attempt to answer any of my questions, nor showed any breadth or depth in any Torah thoughts at all. Yet she clinged to her belief, even knowing she has no idea what it says in the Torah, against someone that she probably knows does know extremely more than she does. Why didn't that stop her to maybe think and consider what I said? Because this is not about reasoning, but about protecting her lifestyle and her conscous. The proof that the truth was what was bothering her, that a certain non jewish religion believes, and announces to the world, that if you don't believe in their god then you'll burn for eternity. Do you think she'll be so upset with that statement, or she'll laugh it off, feeling sorry that people actually think that way.

In all things in life, there is usally a sacrafice to make for doing something. you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to become a violinist, you must sacrafice hours of your time to practice. If you want to be a doctor, you'll have to sacrafice many hours of your formative years in order to become one. If someone wants to party for his formative years, he sacrafices the ability to make a good living and just have dead end jobs. If you want a good family, you must put the effort into raising them (which would include sheltering them from bad influence, of course. Which I could only hope that Sheri does have some understanding of sheltering her children.) So to with Judaism. You need to sacrafice some of your "freeness" if you're going to do it correctly. You can't eat or drive or speak what you want all the times. When they are told you can have it all, kepp Judaism and do what you want, this was an offer that they couldn't refuse. Yet with all things in life, things that are too good to be true are usally not true. Let the buyer beware.

Even though I don't dislike Sheri personally, and don't take what she said personally, since I know she was under a lot of stress from my posts. Yet, I think her position is very dangerous, cutting off any chance for reflection and self improvrment. She quored her father saying if we're perfect we wouldn't be here. Because our purpose is to try to perfect ourselves as much as possible, not to remain imperfect. If we were to remain imperfect and not try to make ourselves better, there is no reason to be here. Thus such thought needs to be brought up under the microscope of truth in order that people shouldn't go through life thinking that it never matters what they do.