If a couple wants children but cant have them conventionally- are surrogates allowed? I mean using the husbands sperm and someone to carry the child other than the wife? Can a man have relations with another woman that is not his wife in order to have a child if she can not? A friend of mine told me she was going to do this and i told her not to do anything until i check this out- it doesnt sound right to me!
sarah

There are a whole host of problems connected with surrogacy that the short answer is probably "no."

The problems include:

1. The emmission of the husband's sperm; how is this done?

2. Relations with another woman; definitely forbidden.

3. Even greater problems if the other woman is married.

4. The question of the Niddah status of the other woman (even assuming for the sake of argument that it was permitted).

5. The status of the child. Whose child is it? If the father is a Kohen, is the child one also?


To name but a few.

THANKS- I DIDNT EVEN THINK OF ALL THOSE THINGS. I DID THINK PERHAPS SINCE IT IS CONSIDERED A MEDICAL PROCEDURE, THAT SURROGACY MAY BE AN OPTION BUT I FIGURED THAT IT WOULD NOT BE ACCEPTABLE IF HE HAD RELATIONS WITH THE UN MARRIED SURROGATE. I PERSONALLY THOUGHT IN VITRO FERTILIZATION WOULD BE AN OPTION WITH THE SURROGATE CARRYING THE CHILD.(THEY WOULD USE THE SURROGATES DONATED EGG.) BY THE WAY, HE IS NOT A COHEN. THEY DO WANT CHILDREN OF THEIR OWN- I GUESS IT WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE THEN. THE ONLY ONLY OPTION I CAN THINK OF SUGGESTING THEN IS JEWISH ADOPTION. ARE THERE EVER JEWISH CHILDREN THAT ARE PLACED FOR ADOPTION AND WHERE ON LINE CAN THEY GO TO LOOK AND READ ABOUT THIS? I THINK THE ONLY OTHER OPTION RUTHIE FEELS SHE HAS NOW, IS TO DIVORCE SETH SO THAT HE CAN HAVE HIS OWN CHILD.

Another concern would be what if the child born of surragacy in the future unknowingly became involved with the child of the surrogate mother and her husband? Though highly unlikely if the child was told everything about his origins this is still one scenario that could occur.

Speaking from experience of one who felt the pain of his wifes childlessness for 5 years till the Borei Olam, Kadosh Hu Vemerachem Hu granted us a beautifull healthy child.

may I, maybe stupidly ask if they have been to a real specialist in this field???

I wish your friends strength and courage at such a painfull moment in their lives.

The number of women who have a uterus and can not be made pregnant today either by IVF or A.I. is small.
The people who posted so far seem to take the more extreme positions. There are ample legitamate rabbinical authorities who permit obtaining the sperm either through ejaculation or intratesticular biopsy. There is no problem of nidah or relationship with A.I. or I.V.F. There is a major problem in that the child is considered the offspring of the surrogate no matter where the egg came from. In the case, described of A.I. of an unrelated female, there is no problem with relationships. The offspring is the child of the biological parents. If the surrogate is jewish then the child is jewish and if the father was a cohen, the child is cohen. It as if he had a second wife or concubine. If the recipient is not jewish, the child is not Jewish.
Incidently, if do have serious fertility problem, I would suggest coming to Israel. For historical reasons, the fertility clinics here are the best and the cost will be half of what it would be in the States. We have fertility clinics here under Rabbinical supervision.

Halachically cloning would be simpler than any of the procedures we have today.

Aryeh Shore

it depends on the couples as well as their local rabbi if they depend on him for advice in matters of their life. with that said as Laurence shore said there are varity of oppions in this field.

as much there is nothing wrong with adopting a child however it sounds as though this is not somthing they are interested in.

in either case be the child jewish or not one should raise the child jewish. as is the custom that when teh child comes of age (who is not jewish) they are to make the choice for themselves.

in any event may you friend be blessed with a child of HaShem.

quote:

Originally posted by laurence shore:
The number of women who have a uterus and can not be made pregnant today either by IVF or A.I. is small.
The people who posted so far seem to take the more extreme positions. There are ample legitamate rabbinical authorities who permit obtaining the sperm either through ejaculation or intratesticular biopsy. There is no problem of nidah or relationship with A.I. or I.V.F.

I'd like to know which authorities you are referring to. I know that Rabbi Moshe Feinstein has permitted AIH (not AID) but he lays down strict conditions for the method of sperm delivery.

You might care to have a look at one of Rabbi Eliezer Waldenberg's Responsa in Tzitz Eliezer, Volume 3, Siman 27, Chapter 5. It's about donating sperm, but the general principles he brings are, it seems to me, applicable in this case.

I'm not going to comment on the halachic aspect of this but maybe send your friend to this web sight http://www.atime.org. this is the web sight of a religious organization that helps couples experiencing infertility. they help with halachic as well as medical information.

I have read the suggested texts as have most people who are interested in the topic. A good summary can be found at
http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/maternity2.html.

However, the overwhelming majority of Rabbis in Israel support A.I. today. I don't know of any Sephardic Rav who is opposed. As I said, the clinics have Rabbinical supervision. Neither Feinstein, Divrei Yoel or Waldenberg addressed I.V.F. Actually the complaint today is from the Obstetricians who claim the Rabbis are constantly calling them up to find a solution for an infertile couple. This does not mean that more strict opinions are ignored. I know infertile couples whose Rabbis have forbidden A.I.
Incidently, I have read a good deal of Tziz Eleazer. I don't know who the medical experts he consulted, but they weren't very good.



Aryeh Shore

quote:

Originally posted by laurence shore:
I have read the suggested texts as have most people who are interested in the topic. A good summary can be found at
http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/maternity2.html.

Very interesting. Thank you for that. Rabbi Broyde can always be counted on for a comprehensive discussion of a Halachic problem.

the couple is not infertile- they were married when she was 21 and he was 23 and now she is 44 and he says she is too old to have a child. The ob/gyn's they have consulted are in agreement-the problem is that because the thought is that a woman is born with all the eggs she will every carry, they age, as does she, and although she is healthy and can probably carry to term, the husband says no- she is too old. this point i think the best bet is to adopt.
they didnt have kids because they felt they could never afford it and now they are better off financially and can afford a child.

quote:

Originally posted by laurence shore:
Neither Feinstein, Divrei Yoel or Waldenberg addressed I.V.F.
Aryeh Shore

Don't you mean Rav Feinstein and Rav Waldenberg?

quote:

Originally posted by sarah green:
the couple is not infertile- they were married when she was 21 and he was 23 and now she is 44 and he says she is too old to have a child. The ob/gyn's they have consulted are in agreement-the problem is that because the thought is that a woman is born with all the eggs she will every carry, they age, as does she, and although she is healthy and can probably carry to term, the husband says no- she is too old. this point i think the best bet is to adopt.
they didnt have kids because they felt they could never afford it and now they are better off financially and can afford a child.

Dear Sarah,

You will let me know someday how you calculate when you can afford a child. I can say if you want children you can not afford to wait til you are 44. Although above age 35 is considered high risk by some criteria, for non-smokers some obstetricians are will to try up to age 50 if the patient is otherwise in good health.

If you think getting infertile couple pregnant is difficult, you haven't tried adopting. It is a long arduous task. Figure three years. It will probably involve a trip to Brazil or the Ukraine. Once you get it down it is not difficult and later adoptions are not so difficult.
You can not exactly adopt a child under Jewish law. The biological parents remain the biological parents. Essentially you become the legal guardian of the child. One usually converts the child on adoption and the child converts again at age 12 or 13. However, if the young man maintains a relgious lifestyle for many years and he knows he was adopted, then the some authorities feel that a second conversion is not an absolute necessity if for some reason it wasn't done at age 13.

In the future, I will abide by the protocol to write R. or Rav before the name.

Aryeh Shore

I agree. Waiting to have children until one thinks one can afford it is also, it seems to me, showing a lack of Bitachon (faith) in Hashem. He gave us a Mitzva to be fruitful and so therefore we rely on Him to help us in its performance.

Sarah, the choice is theirs. however they shouldn't allow a ogyn tell them not to have a child unless it is a aboulste risk to the mother. I know some people who have healthy children born to them older then them and the same age. however if for what ever reason they go through with the adopt this is no small matter in fact is it a great mitzvah to take in a total stranger into their home and raise them. so as i said before may it go well with them in their choice HaShem willing.

Aryeh Shore[/QUOTE]
As I said, the clinics have Rabbinical supervision. Neither Feinstein, Divrei Yoel or Waldenberg addressed I.V.F.


Was this a typing error or did you mean disrespect to these great Rabbonim?

quote:

Was this a typing error or did you mean disrespect to these great Rabbonim?

I think he already dealt with this

quote:

In the future, I will abide by the protocol to write R. or Rav before the name.

Aryeh Shore

quote:

Originally posted by Rav Chaim:

quote:

Was this a typing error or did you mean disrespect to these great Rabbonim?

I think he already dealt with this

quote:

In the future, I will abide by the protocol to write R. or Rav before the name.

Aryeh Shore

As it appears R. Chaim feels strongly about this, I say a few words. While absolutely correct one should cite Rabbinim by their respectful titles, we have a custom of referring to our gedolim by the title of their books. In a sentence in which there is mixed usage of book titles and the Rav's name, I didn't think it disrespectful not to give the title to the Rav's name as it is referring to the body of his works rather than the individual.

Good Grief,

Aryeh Shore

I guess then you should have referred to them as "Moshe" and "Eliezer".

I was just defending you from the post above that saying you already dealt with it and there was no need to bring it up again