I had told my ds (he's almost 11)that he could not read it. He's now come to me and told me that he really wants to and a classmate told him that he should check it out from the library and keep it at his locker so he could read it at school. I'm pleased that he felt he could tell me instead of acting on it and told him that I would revisit the topic.

So, is Harry Potter acceptable for our children?

Two summers ago I gave my son a Harry Potter book called "Half Blood Prince." But that was only because I liked the title and I knew he wouldn't read it. He doesn't read big books like that. But looking into it it is full of the occult, so I probably wouldn't have given it to him if I thought he would read it. But Harry Potter books are now classified as classics I think because everybody seems to read them. I don't see anything wrong with them being educated in that way, since they are classics, as long as they have a solid Torah learning at home and the issues in the books are addressed by the adults. Like magic and sorcery. Maybe you should read it first, then decide. If you can avoid them reading the books it is probably better since magic and sorcery are forbidden in Torah, so why engage our minds in it?

The first time I 'banned' these books, I did read them as they came out. I believe that I've read all of them. The issues are:
1: the use of magic and appropriateness for a Torah-true child to read
2: increasing boy/girl interactions as the series goes on
3: the use of inappropriate language which also increases (if memory serves as the series goes on)

We have chosen to not let these books into our house.

A couple of years ago we were at a Jewish function, probably a Chanukah or Purim party, and for entertainment a magician performed some illusion tricks which he said were like Harry Potter. We enjoyed the entertainment but were saddened that this outside influence crept in.

Finally I recall reading an essay by Rav Pinchus Winston noting that one reason why Harry Potter fads have come around could be that we have neglected Jewish mysticism... with its neglect through traditional learning some interest in it will come back as these secular fads spread and intrigue us to look into mysticism.

Perhaps there is also a parallel to internet-phoebic leaders who would have us forsake this powerful technology for Torah learning.

There is an interesting article on the OU Web Siteregarding Harry Potter. In the article Rabbi Abramowitz argues that the series is useful as a metaphor.
Of course, J.K. Rowling didn't have this in mind, but you can learn some important Jewish values from the lessons in the story. Take one example,

quote:

Harry is Jewish. His parents died so that he might survive and carry on their legacy. Voldemort isn't an evil wizard, but he does represent the forces of evil. He is Egyptian slavery. He is the Syrian-Greeks. He is Haman. He is the Roman persecution. He is the Spanish Inquisition. He is pogroms and Crusades and the Holocaust and the Intifada. He thought he had destroyed the Potter family, but you know what? They survived in Harry, much the same way the Jewish people lives on in you.

.

Literature is meant to be read between the lines. I think we are better off guiding our children how to read these works (which they are drawn to anyway) rather than having them read them "at a friends house" without our guidance. This is not to say that all literature is acceptable (it is not) but maybe we need to consider what we are banning before we assume everything is assur.

Gilad, interesting response. That would respond to my first concern - whether I'd let him read it based on that; I'd have to give it more consideration - for an adult that's easy to see. For a child, I think that a child would have more difficulty seeing the metaphor.

That still leaves issues two and three.

Re increasing boy/girl interactions, from what I've seen there is none until the 5th book. Even in the 5th and the 6th there is less than any other non-frum source of entertainment.

Re language, I don't see any bad language by American standards, although I admittedly don't know British bad language.

Re the main point of the sorcery in the books, I think it really comes down to whether you allow ANY secular imaginary entertainment. Harry Potter, Star Wars, Matrix, even Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, all need to be seen with an understanding of the distinction between real and imaginary.

This is not just my distinction, it's a halachic distinction: both Rav Shternbuch and Rav Moshe Feinstein permitted magic shows (by not including them in the prohibition of achizas einayim) on the basis of modern audiences knowing that they were not real sorcery rather tricks.

Finally, I agree with others that the themes in the series can be used to spawn discussion. With many kids this can work better than "stam" discussion of principles. As others have said, there's no end to the lessons that can be drawn from the series. As a simple example, Harry Potter's "prophesized" eternal struggle with Voldemort (end of Order of Pheonix) is very analogous to the eternal struggle between Yaakov and Esav in the upcoming parshas Toldos. (Although we win through morality, not magical violence.)

My father collects books.


I think one issue about these books from what I gathered, should be of concern to us, is the use of terms such as pureblood, halfblood and mudblood which is the same reasoning that Hitler and the Nazi's used against Jews during the holocaust, and bears watching/ addressing.

As far as the "magic" is concerned, I personally don't see anything wrong with that. After all, we're talking about Goyim magic, which is permitted. Though the Shach in YD 179:1 that even a sick person which is about to lose a limb shouldn't heal it by going to someone that does magic, unless it's Sakunas Nefashes, the PT brings the Mishkannas Yaakov that argues. He says the Zohar that forbids it is R' Shimon b. Yachai Shita in Sanhedrin that a goy is forbidden to do Kishuf. We don't Paskin like him. Thus there is only a problem of Amira L'Akum which is permitted for the sick (also maybe permitted for Tamim T'hyeh). See there.

So there is no problem for Harry to do magic, just like you wouldn't ban it because he also eats bacon. He's allowed to. I heard that lately there is a character named "Goldstein",which might create a problem, but we don't know if his mother was Jewish.

Yet for the other reasons you wrote, for the boy/girl relationship that is involved can be a problem. See OC 307:16 of the severity of such books.

Rav Chaim,
What is the last reference which you mentioned? OC - I'm sorry, I do not know that abbreviation.

quote:

boy/girl relationship that is involved can be a problem.

Is the goy less allowed to have a relationship with a girl than he is to eat bacon?

That's not my concern - whatever a goy wants to do is fine by me - not my place to judge him. However, I can, at this point in my son's life, choose what exposure he has to what goyim do. Hence my concerns about boy/girl relationships. He really does not need to be introduced to that at his age. At this point in his life, the only girls he knows are the girls who live on our block (who babysit him), our neighbor's daughter (she has brothers Akiva's age) , and his baby sister. He has no concept of a boy/girl relationship and I'd like to keep it that way.

Orach Chaim. The first section of the SO (Shulchon Orech)

Dear rob,
There is two issues here. One, people that are doing things that they're not supposed to do, which is a bad message to people. Secondly, even things that are allowed, or even a mitzvah, but it's not something that someone should read about for various reasons. You can use the facilities, in fact their is a Mitzvah to use them, but of course it's not appropriate to read the details of it. You can take it a few steps further, but I don't think I have to.

The Goyim may have a right to do it. But it's not for Jewish eyes to read about it. their minds should be pure and not on such things that lead to certain thoughts. Magic or eating bacon never left such impressions on people

I was unable to look inside the Orach Chaim - I only found Yoreh De'ah in my house; however, I found references to it online (ironically the first website to come up was one where someone was discussing this very issue - Harry Potter). So, am I to understand that the issue is sifrei milchamos? If that is the case, and we are talking about a 5th grade boy here, is any fiction appropriate? or should he only be studying/learning? I also read that he shouldn't attend ballgames or circuses(he's never been to a ballgame - although many of the chashuvishe families attend ballgames in our community) and we don't do circuses. Is there any appropriate venue for a child today?
I'm going to have to find a copy of the Orach Chaim for my dh - i didn't realize that he was lacking it.

quote:

Originally posted by Raybin:
Two summers ago I gave my son a Harry Potter book called "Half Blood Prince." But that was only because I liked the title and I knew he wouldn't read it. He doesn't read big books like that.

Now, why would you give your son a book that you KNEW he would not read??? wouldn't you rather give him a book that he would read so that he would want to read and grow more?

quote:

Originally posted by Rivkaleah:
That would respond to my first concern - ...

That still leaves issues two and three.

I agree with you on those points. if there is offesive language (I don't remember) then it is inappropriate. And the later books that involve "increasing boy/girl interactions" would also be problematic.

Personally, I don't think Harry Potter is OK reading, because it is bad literature, if for no other reason: the plot is predictable; the language is mediocre; it may captivate imagination of a pre-teenager, but I think that is where it ends.

Alex, you can't discount all books that have been poorly written. That would really whittle down the selection. And, if you were to take a look at fiction at the major Jewish publishers (Feldheim, Artscroll) and their subsidiaries (Targum,etc), then you may be truly saddened, as the writing is not always up to par. So, perhaps, you are also saying that we should not read Judaic literature because that is poorly written.

Rivkaleah, good point. When it comes to reading to our children, I always try to pick the books that are at least well written, are not as predictable from the beginning, and prompt the child to ask questions. Harry Potter is not one of them, even though my older daughter has read all of them (she's 18 now). My younger one (7) does not express any interest in Harry Potter at all, which I consider for the better. On the other hand, if a book can get a child to start reading thick books, then why not? It's a useful skill. But of the non-Judaic fantasy authors writing for pre-teenagers and young teens, I prefer Raymond E. Feist: brilliant English (he was an English professor at UCSD); tight plots; edge-of-your-seat intrigue; forces of good vs. forces of evil; etc. If you don't mind you child reading about wizards living among regular people, and if your child understands that it is not about wizardry, but about entirely mobilizing your powers for the battle against evil, - this is the author to read.