quote:

If the children see keeping mitzvos as normal it is much easier. If they are watching television, or attending public school functions the adults that are teaching them and therefore have implied moral authority are living a different version of normal.

How common is it for a Frum school to employ gentile or non-Frum teachers to teach secular subjects in which they are qualified?

If a gentile married female math teacher does not cover her hair with a snood in a community in which all Jewish married women do, is this a statement of parents teaching their children to follow the ways of the goyim?

quote:

I guess NY and other Eastern seaboard states feel that the best education comes from the state, not from the family.

substitute "from an institution" for "from the state", and insert "Jewish community leaders in" after seaboard, and you have baically the statement:

"I guess the klal tends to assume that chinuch is a mitzvah best fulfilled through a shaliach"

Education through shliach is a relatively recent thing in human and Jewish history. The family has always been the primary source of education. Philosophy of education and pedagogy are ideas that the family already knows intuitively. Homeschooling programs come with instructions, texbooks etc....not much different from what the teachers do. When a parent is in doubt he or she is provided with appropriate resources.

I know some Jewish academies that are world class. But if a Jew lives in an area where such resources don't exist or cannot afford to pay the academy fees, homeschooling is a viable alternative for those who can do it. It's certainly is not for everyone.

What characterisitcally happens in communitites is that one group wants to be more machmir or less machmir or whatever than the other group and they won't send their children to that school. Soon you will have two or three Jewish schools that are struggling and everyday is a crisis.

I once lived in a community where a vibrant school shut down because Sephardim didn't feel the school was teaching their kids enough of their minhagim etc. They tried to start a Sephardic school while the remaining Ashkenazic families could no longer support the old school. So both schools ultimately failed.

If the kids are getting enough Torah education from somewhere, homeschooling makes a lot of sense for those who can do it.

quote:

How common is it for a Frum school to employ gentile or non-Frum teachers to teach secular subjects in which they are qualified?

Rob,
This is a good one. We've all seen it many times.

quote:

If a gentile married female math teacher does not cover her hair with a snood in a community in which all Jewish married women do, is this a statement of parents teaching their children to follow the ways of the goyim?

Good question!

quote:

Originally posted by MK Fink:
[QUOTE]

This was the original shaila; and it deserves direct consideration.
As for sending children to a school where children watch television I would suggest that you consider this question.
Do the characters in these television programs make achronos brochos after the eat?
If the answer is no then consider what this means to your children. As parents we want a chinuch that will teach our children to live as jews, we also want them to want to live as jews. If the children see keeping mitzvos as normal it is much easier. If they are watching television, or attending public school functions the adults that are teaching them and therefore have implied moral authority are living a different version of normal. This amgiguity is a disservice to children that should be considered.
mkf

Ah, but my children themselves do not watch t.v.; their classmates do.

quote:

Originally posted by rob:


How common is it for a Frum school to employ gentile or non-Frum teachers to teach secular subjects in which they are qualified?

If a gentile married female math teacher does not cover her hair with a snood in a community in which all Jewish married women do, is this a statement of parents teaching their children to follow the ways of the goyim?

It used to be common in NY for the most frum schools to use public school teachers. As the number and quality of academic preparation of frum potential english teachers has increased this unfortunate occurence is passing into history. The schools have persued this specifically because of the problems it creates.

quote:

Originally posted by Rivkaleah:
Ah, but my children themselves do not watch t.v.; their classmates do.

All children will have a lifetime of opportunities to digress from learning torah exclusively,with various distractions, confusions and contadictions.

While children are small, and innocent; we have the only opportunity to give them a foundation that will withstand all of the negative influences that unfortunately come along the way of all of us.

If you teach them Torah and limit outside influences now they can catch up on limudei-chol later. If they are given a broader education and exposed to peers that have non-torah influences you may not be able to reverse the entropic forces that may come with an open window, even open a crack.
MKF

quote:

If a gentile married female math teacher does not cover her hair with a snood in a community in which all Jewish married women do, is this a statement of parents teaching their children to follow the ways of the goyim?

I don't think so. It teaches children to be prepared to live in a world full of diversity and to respect people for what they know, not what they wear.

quote:

I don't think so. It teaches children to be prepared to live in a world full of diversity and to respect people for what they know, not what they wear.

Alex,
Couldn't we say the same about television, mixed sports and singing?

quote:

Originally posted by Alex:

quote:

If a gentile married female math teacher does not cover her hair with a snood in a community in which all Jewish married women do, is this a statement of parents teaching their children to follow the ways of the goyim?

I don't think so. It teaches children to be prepared to live in a world full of diversity and to respect people for what they know, not what they wear.

I don't think diversity is the intention of most cheder. They have a shitta, the children are taught a derech; it's not negotiable. Parents that are looking for diversity would do best to consider a jewish day-school.
Yes it does matter what we wear. Ortho-Jews may not have invented the concept of wearing a uniform, but it suits the community well. What we wear reflects our beliefs. That does matter.

Quote "Education through shliach is a relatively recent thing in human and Jewish history. The family has always been the primary source of education."

The following is the paraphrase of the gemarah Bava Basra 21a from Kolel Iyun Hadaf.


(a) (Rav Yehudah): Yehoshua ben Gamla prevented Torah

from being forgotten from Yisrael!

(b) Originally, a father taught his child Torah; an

orphan did not learn;

1. Question: Why was that?

2. Answer: They expounded "v'Limadtem Osam" as 'Atem'

(you yourselves (the fathers) are commanded to teach

your children);

(c) They enacted to establish teachers in

Yerushalayim.

1. They learned from "U'Devar Hash-m mi'Yerushalayim".

(d) Still, fathers took their children to

Yerushalayim, but orphans did not go;

(e) They enacted to establish teachers in every

province; children would start learning at the age of

16 or 17.

(f) If the Rebbi got angry at the child, the child

would leave;

1. Yehoshua ben Gamla enacted to establish teachers in

every region and city, and that children would begin

learning at the age of six or seven.



Quote "But if a Jew lives in an area where such resources don't exist or cannot afford to pay the academy fees"

Usually the tuition is in balance of the person's income. Being in Kollel (and making quite little) I get a substancial discount for tuition. The problem is when people don't want to give up certain luxuries in lieu of tuition.

My main problem, is that not all parents are qualified to teach Torah subjects when they have limited learning ability. Even FFBs that went through the Yeshiva system, there are many of them that are limited in their learning. Thus, in most cases, it's best to leave it to those who have a better background in it. I know my children's Rebbes all are accomplished scholars in their own right, and I have confident in them that they'll teach them correctly.