Is one allowed to change a baby's dirty diaper in front of seforim? Is there a difference between a wet and dirty diaper? Also can you provide a source for the answer?

It is permitted to change any type of diaper in a room where there are seforim.However it is preferable to take the child into another room---Shayllos and Teshuvos Machezah Eliyahu 64

While there I am pretty sure is no ervah by a child, the child's eating habits and ensuing excrements do have halachik ramifications. Does this have any bearing on the issue at hand?

are you talking about whether a baby is exclusively nursed or formula-fed or eating solids?

After a child starts eating bread his/ her stool changes. Would that have any bearing on the halachick question you pose?

The problem is the same as if you as an adult would excrete before seforim. The matter here is that if the baby is before 8 days old, I believe you may, but why would one bring such dishonor to Torah? In any event change the baby in another room. I believe Rabbi Kacev has a very good point and a source here, but one must express a stringency. If you have no other options, then fine the responsa provided is just for that, but if you have other options then you should use those then falling upon the ruling of the responsa. I have heard this matter and the best option is not to do it in front of seforim and I hope in no way Rabbi Kacev have made an overshadowing of what you have said, but I believe that we should not do so in front of seforim. Also, there is the issue of nakedness in front of the Torah or other seforim that applies here too.

Reb Asher,

You say that there is an issue of nakedness in front of seforim. Are you sure there's a concept of nakedness (Ervah) by a child?

quote:

Originally posted by Shragie Edelstein:
Reb Asher,

You say that there is an issue of nakedness in front of seforim. Are you sure there's a concept of nakedness (Ervah) by a child?

Can one say that there is a difference between a baby and a child, that perhaps at an age when the average child would be embarassed by their own nakedness? We see by Adam Harishon kodem hachet that there was no problem with nakedness. Only after did they "notice" and needed to cover up.

Also, what about having relations with seforim in the room, might that be equated to the halachic status of a dirty diaper?

A rabbi in a yeshiva gave us a lecture on the halachic status of davening in a place where someone had previously relieved themselves.

And he offered that pulling off to the side of the road along a highway could be a problem under this principle.

I recall that he quoted a halacha that said one should be 4 amos (6 feet approximately) away from any such location.

The rabbi described how to apply this halacha in a case where we were stranded on a rock cliff where there wasn't 4 amos room...

The rabbi derived that in such a case one should wait the time it would take to walk 4 amos before davening.

Thus is would seem that the problem being discussed is more about if anyone is actively using the seforim at the time... and that a small delay after the changing event might be necesary before normal elevated tasks can continue.

In fact I also recall learning from somewhere that the issue is smell, and if one is not aware that a baby had a dirty diaper since it was not causing any bad odor, that there is no problem if one had davened in proximity. I think we tend to check diapers before bentching in my house but if there is no particular indicator to check perhaps there is no obligation.

The dominant aspect of these situations I believe is a disturbing foul odor, and I am not sure how that would relate to a clean naked child.

A clean unclothed child doesn't have the problem with a diaper having a foul odor, but with being naked.

If one is even allowed to break shabbes on a muktze object that creates such an unpleasant smell by removing it. Than it seems certanly unapropriate to dawen near smelly dipers. See Rambam. However a baby during a brith is even naked in Shul so how do you explane that the nakedness of a baby would not be allowed near sfarim ?

I think you are right; that it's not a question of the baby's nakedness.

BTW, welcome to The Global Yeshiva

So it is okay to daven with a naked baby walking around?

What is mukzeh about the particular foul smelling object?

At what age of a child would their being naked become a problem at a time and place of davening?

At a Bris today we happened to be discussing near a naked no longer youngest child that the word which describes the Nachash seems to be the same word root translated as naked.

Bereishis 2:25 - 2:26 ayin raish vav mem yud mem -- naked (they)


Bereishis 3:1 ayin raish vav mem -- cunning (unembarassedly giving a bald-faced lie?)

quote:

Originally posted by rob:
What is mukzeh about the particular foul smelling object?

It has no Shabbos use.

are you refering to a diaper?

I believe a diaper has good use on Shabbos - so that a baby does not tend to wet my clothing while sitting on my lap... and not just in case I might come to wring it out.

According to some opinions there are Shabbos issues with some diapers with adhesive sticking tape. Velcro attachment I think has no issue.

And I think there is an issue with pre-moistened towelettes, that some permit as long as they are not sopping wet, since because anything done with them squeezes out liquid, and others don't permit them at all.

Given that these issues are addressed, it would seem that diapers themselves cannot be mukzeh.

In OC 75:4 Rama permits reading in front of naked children until they’re fit for Biya (MB boy until 9, girl to3 )

Diapers are only Muktzah only after there is a deposit in it, since it’s a base for the deposit it becomes Boseis to it and Mukyzah. The deposit doesn’t have a use on Shabbos, but may be removed from the room, because it’s a Geraf Shel Rai, so the Rabanan make an exception so you don’t have to sit among discusting things.

quote:

Originally posted by rob:
are you refering to a diaper?

No; to what was in it.

If we are refering not to the container but what is contained, isn't there plenty of other precedent to moving a tray containing mukzeh, such as Shabbos Neiros?

It is forbidden to move the tray upon which the candles are on.