Where I grew up (in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood in the Bronx, New York), there was one big synagogue that everyone went to. I learned the Hebrew alphabet and the Hebrew prayers the way they taught me, and never knew there was a different way. Now I live in a different neighborhood, and I have gone from synagogue to synagogue and NO ONE pronounces Hebrew the way I was taught. More importantly to me, no one sings the prayers with the same tunes! No one I have even met in my entire adult life pronounces things the way I learned them, and I am told that in Israel they also don't speak "my" way. I suppose the two ways of speaking originated in different areas, but my main question is, why do you suppose this synagogue chose to teach us this way when we would never encounter it elsewhere? Also, is there a way to find a synagogue that "sings" the way I'm used to? And one more thing. I hope I don't offend anyone with this, but with the version I learned, there were more phonetic variations, and so there was more difference between words, no waste of duplicate symbols for the same sound, and it had a "softer" sound. Why was the other version finally agreed upon by most people? Just curious.

how were you taught to pronunce the Hebrew? what was the Name of this big synagogue you used to attend?

First off, it sounds like you were taught Hebrew in an Ashkenazi Synagogue (what you say about the vowel sounds makes that likely). In Israel Modern Hebrew is not pronounced the Ashkenazi way, rather a sort of Sefardi pronounciation. In the Synagogues, however, you will find people praying in the way you were taught (mostly the more Orthodox, or Chareidi, Synagogues).

But even among the Ashkenazim there are several variations in pronounciation. For instance, the "O" sound (as in "HoDo") is variously pronounced as "Oy" (as in "HoyDoy") and "Ow" (like the German "au" and therefore "HowDow"). In some Chasidic places the "Oo" sound is pronounced as "Ee" so that "Borchu" would become "Borchee".

As regards the singing of the prayers, I have found Synagogues in the US, UK and Israel in all of which I am quite at home and they have the same tunes. It just a question of knowing which type of Synagogue to look for. What type was your's?

Thank you for writing.

It was an orthodox synagogue called "The Van Cortlandt Jewish Community Center."

Some pronunciation examples would be that the Hebrew vowel that looks like an English capital letter T we would pronounce as "aw" and some "T" sounds we would pronounce as "S". In your example, we would say "Borchoo."

By the way, its Hebrew school was not very good at teaching Hebrew for meaning. We learned how to pronounce it so we could read the siddurs and participate in synagogue, but although they tried, they did not do a good job teaching us the meanings of the words. So don't start using Hebrew words with me, because I won't understand most!

quote:

Originally posted by Paulette:
Thank you for writing.

It was an orthodox synagogue called "The Van Cortlandt Jewish Community Center."

Some pronunciation examples would be that the Hebrew vowel that looks like an English capital letter T we would pronounce as "aw" and some "T" sounds we would pronounce as "S". In your example, we would say "Borchoo."

Definitely Ashkenazi, then.

B"H
ON HEBREW PRONUNCIATION (To Whom it May Concern)

When I was a child of ten to twelve, I had the privilege of living in Germany, in the small town of Ramstein (in the Rhineland Palatinate), a town surrounded by a neat and trim forest, and
medieval castles, and many a quaint villages overlaid with cobblestones, & ca. It was there that I had my first encounter with the German language. European Jewry, of course, was steeped for many centuries in the German culture, and Yiddish (the Lingua Franca of
European Jews) has its marked German influence, as everyone knows. However, what very few people know is that in the German language
there is no "W" sound, as in English. In German, as also in Yiddish, the "W" is pronounced as an English "V," as in "waser" (water) = pronounced "vasser." "Was," (what) = pronounced "Vass." So, naturally, having no "W" sound, when our Jewish brothers of Europe
who had been reared upon the German language saw the Hebrew letter "WAW," they pronounced it as "VAV." When they came up to Israel, and spread their native speech in their new homeland, the same vernacular was quickly caught on by the common masses, mostly
of the poor who had come from Oriental societies and cultures, and who often thought their own cultures were inferior to that of
Ashkenazi culture. This, then, accounts for the way "WAW" was exchanged for "VAV."
There are other things peculiar to the German language. "V," as in Vater, is pronounced as an "F" in English. There is also no sound
for the Hebrew letter "Sad," (Tzadi),which explains why in modern Hebrew (which as I said is influenced by the German)they will say "Tz," as in Tzion, Tzadiq, etc. In German, there is no "Th" sound (i.e. the soft Hebrew letter "Thau"), which can explan why in
Chassidic circles it is always pronounced as the English "S," as in "Shabbas," "Beis Din," "Toldos," etc. This is a far cry from the
pure Hebrew, but as we've said, was sadly influenced by the German language, a language to which Jews had been accustomed for centuries.
So, anyone wishing to return to their true Hebrew roots and origins, let him examine closely the Yemenite vocalization of words and letters, who give distinct phonetic sounds for each of the Hebrew letters - both, those accentuated by a dot, and those written without a dot! Not because the Yemenites put themselves upon a pedestal, as it were, in relation to others- may G-d forbid. But, rather, because this is the truth, however hard it might sound.

Now Rabbi Mazuz of Benei Barak (a Tunisian Jew) is purported to disagree with the Yemenite way of pronouncing the Hebrew letter "Qof" (ק), which with them has the phonetic sound of "Gof." According to him, it should be pronounced as "Qof." He also disagrees with the Yemenite Jews in the way they will say the hard "Gimel" (גּ) as "Jimal." According to him, possibly based upon Rav Sa'adia Gaon's Commentary of "Sefer Hayitzirah," this is a corruption of the Hebrew language.
For me, I will not even entertain the thought of there being any other way! It is enough for me to see how the new generation of Israelis have quickly abandoned the way that their grandfathers used to read the Torah. In Morocco and in Iraq, for instance, Jews have always pronounced the Hebrew letter "vav" (ו) as "waw," but today in their synagogues (unless you are an old timer) you will never hear the Sephardic "Waw" sound. They have all abandoned the old pronunciation for the German-sounding "vav!" All, that is to say, except for the Yemenites.
On the other hand, the Jews of Tunis (like the Yemenites) have preserved the soft Gimel sound, which is pronounced as "Gh." Likewise have the Jews of Ashkenaz, Yemen and Buchara preserved distinct sounds for the vowels "qometz" (ָ) and "patach" (_), the former being pronounced as "O," while the latter as "Aa." These sounds are now lost with the Sephardic Jews. Only in recent years, some Sephardic groups have returned to saying the soft and hard letter "Daleth," (ד), and will therefore pronounce the soft letter "Daleth" as the Yemenites. This fact was brought home to them by the Talmud (Berachoth 13.b) and Midrashic literature which require our extending the sound of the "Daleth" in Ehadhhh, when reciting Qiryath Shema', which could never be done if there was only a hard "Daleth." (The hard Daleth is "D," while the soft Daleth is "DH" or as in "th" in the definite article "The.") So, in answer to Rabbi Mazuz, after kissing his feet, if the Yemenites have been meticulous about all these phonetic sounds, it only stands to reason that they were meticulous also about the hard "Gimel" sound and the "Qof." This is all common sense, which I profess to have the least of. At any rate, let every man follow the customs of his ancestors, without diverting right or left from them. This is my most humble opinion.

Sincerely,
David Ben-Abraham

How is a reish with a dagesh pronounced?

B"H
Dear Lori,
Your question is pertinent! We have, indeed, found references in early Hebrew books on grammar, such as "Sefer Ha-Yitzirah 1:3," that mention not only the doublets of בג"ד כפ"ת as having hard and soft sounds, but also the "Resh" (ר) as having a hard and soft sound! They referred there specifically to the custom of old in Eretz Yisrael, as we find in Aaron Ben-Asher's book, "Sefer Diqduqei Ta'amim," section # 7, who says the Jews of Eretz Yisrael pronounced the Hebrew letter "Resh" as a soft "Resh" whenever it came after one of six Hebrew letters marked with the vowel known as "shewa" (ְ). Yet, this rule was peculiar only to them and not to the Jews of Babylon. Today, this rule does not apply to us, or rather, it has been lost by us on account of our adopting the Babylonian method.
Today, the "Resh" that we find in our Hebrew Bibles as sometimes carrying a dot in its center, I've been told that this refers to something else. (Examples of which we find in the first book of Samuel, ch.1:6, בעבור הרּעימה, and in Song of Solomon 5:2, שרּאשי נמלא טל, and elsewhere.)The Yemenites, when reading a "Resh" which carries a dot in its center, will always read it by rolling their tongues in an exceptional way, almost like a trill. This is what I've seen in my thirty years among the Yemenite Jews.
I will admit that I am no grammarian, and I do not know why the authors of the Massoretic texts put a dot in the "Resh" in these few exceptional places, but it would seem to me to be because of the awkward position of one's tongue in relation to other letters when saying the "Resh," such as after aspirating the letter "He" (ה), and in order to stress its proper sound; Or in the case of, לא כרּת שרּך(Ezekiel 16:4), perhaps the accentuated letters come to help us distinguish these two words from other similar words. At any rate, the Yemenite way of pronunciation for the "Resh" which has a dot within its center is always a prolonged rolling of the tongue.
Sincerely,
David

quote:

I do not know why the authors of the Massoretic texts put a dot in the "Resh" in these few exceptional places

Does anyone know? And, if so, who?

I wasn't raised with any kind of Jewish education or tradition, and when I did start learning hebrew, I learned the Sefardi pronuciations. Interestingly, the synagogue and most of those in it were Ashkenazi, as is my Jewish ancestry. I am wondering, are the Sefardi pronuciations used most often in modern hebrew?

pronunciations, I mean

never mind, my question was answered in another post

B"H
Lori, Shalom!
Rav Kook z"l and others have written extensively about this, viz., how that the modern Hebrew language today is based after the Sephardic pronunciation - with no distinction made between the vowel sound of "qometz" (ָ) and that of a "patach" (_), rather, the same phonetic sound of "Aa" is given for both of them; Or how that the Hebrew letters "Kaph" (כ) and "Qoph" (ק) are, today, pronounced with the same phonetic sound; Or how that "Tet" (ט) and "Tau" (ת) are now pronounced the same way. Moreover, like the Sephardic communities who do not distinguish between the vowels "sere" (ֵ) and "segul" (ֶ), so is this practice widespread in modern Hebrew, by all those who learn the language.
Sincerely,
David