Does anyone recall a few years back, there was an Exorcism performed in Yerushalaim wherein the deceased, a male, possesed his wife and was putting her thru alot of torment and didnt want to end the possesion. According to him he was a shikornik and a mechalel Shabbos and so was doomed to remain earthbound. Well the Tikkun for this was that his children would affirm publicly to take upon themselves the Mitzvot in earnest.

Supposedly there were a great many Mekubalim there who witnessed it, though my research has not produced any name of any person in attendance there. Nor does anyone seem to want to discuss it.

Was this a hoax? And if so why? And if not why is there such scant traces of evidence that this was anything more then a publicity stunt.

I did hear the tape of the event and it is very chilling but are there any reliable eidim to the fact that this case is true?

I heard it was all a hoax. Why? Well, why not? It captured people's interest. There are many hoaxs around. People get a thrill out of creating a hoax. Go figure!

This is a charpa and busha. Was nobody held accountable for this? Maybe thats why I can find no names associated with it. I pity the kehilla that has these type of people amongst them.

This type of "story" I always take with a grain of salt. People say and do such things for many reasons...some people are mentally ill while others have their own agendas. In my heart I know that Hashem is The Maker of good and evil and no such "spirit" has control over Hashem. Today, too much recognition is given to the occult and such. This can become a form of idolatry. We as Jews must always keep our focus on Hashem alone. Hashem, The One and Only, is in control of all that exists in the universe. While such stories arouse interest, we must keep in mind that Hashem is All Powerful.

Reminds me of the Talking Fish....

Well we have a well documented exocism performed at the Jerusalem Health Clinic. The psychologists were only planing a partial ceremony but the brother did the whole ceremony and the demon was exorcised. It is given as an example of knowing what group you are treating when dealing with mental illness.

Aryeh Shore

well documented? can you provide the sources for this, and if available on a website, what would the links be?

I tink it was a hoax because the last Dybbuk(demon) was by the HCofetz Chaim and someone told me after him there would never be any after it - i heard the tape and it was scary but it could so be a hoax

quote:

well documented? can you provide the sources for this, and if available on a website, what would the links be?

Well the article on various techniques used including the exorcism use to be available on the net but I guess they took it off when they published their book. If you are interested in the general topic (understanding the cultural background of your patients), a search for Witztum or Bilu will give you a number of sites in hebrew and english.

Sanity and Sanctity: Mental Health Work Among the Ultra-Orthodox in Jerusalem” by David Greenberg and Eliezer Witztum (332 pages, Yale University Press, $40).


Bilu, Y., & Witztum, E. (1992). Working with Jewish ultra-orthodox patients: Guidelines for a culturally sensitive therapy. Culture, Medicine and Psychiatry, 17, 1-37.

Aryeh Shore

I heard from the author of "Go My Son" an autobiography on the Holacaust, I forget the author's name off hand, and he said that he was in Radin at the time and said there was no Dybbuk story with the Chofetz Chaim.

Can you bring a source for the story of the Dybbuk with the Chofetz Chaim involved? If not....

quote:

Originally posted by Menachem:
I tink it was a hoax because the last Dybbuk(demon) was by the HCofetz Chaim and someone told me after him there would never be any after it - i heard the tape and it was scary but it could so be a hoax

In my youth, one of my Roshei Yeshiva was Harav Simcha Wasserman olav hashalom. His father Harav Elchonon olav hashalom, was a talmid of the Chofetz Chaim and supposedly was there at this dybbuking.

Do you have a source for this?

I do not have a source for the story about the Chofitz Chiam but there are sources for the reality of "possession" from the oral tradition:

The Mishnah in Eiruvin 41b states: “He whom an evil spirit, has taken out (beyond the permitted Sabbath limit) has no more than four cubits (in which to move)”

Rashi there explains that “an evil spirit” means that a demon entered him and conquered his mind.

The Pirkei Rebbe Eliezer Chapter 13 states: To what is it compared? To a man who has within him an evil spirit. And all which he does, does he do it by his own knowledge? And all which he speaks, does he speak by his own knowledge? Is it not so that he does everything by the will of the evil spirit that is within him?

I was also told by a close friend of mine who is a big Talmud Chachum here in Bayit Vegan that Rav Batsry who preformed the exorcism told him that one of the secular papers in Jerusalem paid the woman who was possessed $5,000 to say it was a hoax. She announced it was a hoax but then trouble started again so she returned to her original story.

As far as the exorcism that was performed by the Chafetz Chaim, I read a very detailed account of this that was written by Rabbi Asher Katzman several years ago in the yiddish weekly The Algemeiner-Journal. He also points out in the article that it was the custom of Harav Elchonon Wasserman to retell the story every Purim to his talmidim.
In the sefer "Ruchot Mesaprot" by Harav Yehudah Moshe Patayah (one of the great gedolim of Iraqi Jewry) he devotes a complete chapter to exorcisms that he personally performed, being an a great kabbalist and expert in this field.

quote:

Originally posted by Rabbi Mitterhoff:

I was also told by a close friend of mine who is a big Talmud Chachum here in Bayit Vegan that Rav Batsry who preformed the exorcism told him that one of the secular papers in Jerusalem paid the woman who was possessed $5,000 to say it was a hoax. She announced it was a hoax but then trouble started again so she returned to her original story.

So what are we to believe other than that there is now a back and forth story? Who is the Talmid Chocham that you quote?

I do not want to to quote his name in the forum but he is a close friend of mine an a ram in one of the big yeshivas here in Bayit Vegan. He is very trust worthy.

If I can ask the Rebbe, how would they determine that it is indeed a dyybuk and not, say, a split personality?

ilan

Dear people,

Lets use another example, the story of the Besht and the prince. Briefly the prince thought he was a dog. The Besht got down with him and acted as he did living under the table. Eventually he suggested more comfortable postitions and at last returned him to a normal life. (The actual story is a lot more interesting.)

This is a psychological technic in which you insert yourself into the patients fantasy. The patient has to make room for you and part of him has to leave the fantasy and then he leaves it altogether. Some people in previous generation understood psychological techniques before they were expressed academically, otherwise witchdoctors would have been put out of business a long time ago.
(One doctor inserted himself into a patients science fiction fantasy. The patient continued the fantasy long after he was cured because the psychologist seemed to be enjoying himself so much.)

As for the case being discussed, Dybbuk or Demon fantasies are normal psychological manifestations depending on culture. It can be expressed due to normal psychological problems (loss of a love one, abusive childhood) and not necessarily psychotic mental illness which is apparently a biochemical disorder which usually can't be cured by just talking to the person or holding exorcism exercises.)


Aryeh Shore