Sorry, as an anonymous poster, in the controversial issues forum thread, i can not reply to my previous posting, nor reply to those who posted in it, so I had to open a new thread to post a continuation of the discussion on Cursing.

Since cursing of shamta is mentioned in the Gemaras, has been known to be performed by the rabbis, supposing that the rabbi's, with mention of the Rabah bar Rav Huna case, placed a curse on the Nazis follwoing the end of the war, but more specifically those of german heritage, could the curse be reversed, or perhaps not be applicable in certain cases?

For example, for german, or german speaking people living outside of german at the time of WW1 and WW11, who had no direct involvement in the war, or german speaking people of other countries, who may have had some decendants who were german, but who were clearly citizens of another country that did not participate in either War, or those who, due to the various Wars prior to WW1 and WW11 and border changes, were considered german citizens for a brief period of time....

...or those who were in germany during WW1 and WW11 who helped jewish people during the war, or who did not participate in any form towards what occured...

I guess what I'm trying to say, is do those who decide to place a curse, take consideration for these and other issues before taking a curse and if later they realised a mistake, could they then undo the curse, or change it, or perhaps simply it does not apply to those who it is not directly meant for, regardless of who the person givin the curse actually intends for the curse to be for...

...finally, if a person says a curse on someone, a group of people and in the case where the person is not found to be responsible for what the person giving the curse supposes, will the person giving the curse then in turn somehow find themselves cursed?

if indeed curses work as mentioned in the Gemara, i would think that they would also hold certain conditions and would be something that should not be handed out idlely, nor be handed out in a general manner to a whole group of people when in fact there may be some oversight regarding one person who is in fact not deserving of the curse...should a curse then be withheld if there is a chance that the person giving the curse has a slight doubt as to the exisitance of that one innocent person?

Since i never seen anything explicit to this question, I'm not going to speculate on it. It's very well possible, but I don't know. but we do find times where there are accidental slips of Poschim pi L'Satan, and innocent people did get hurt.

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Originally posted by Anonymous Member:
deleted orginal text...

go study the parsha, with Rashi, and midrashim on Balak and Balaam. That might help...

B"H

I think the very question is erroneously stated. First, the word "shamta," or שמתא, is an Aramaic word meaning "ostracising." It means ex-communicating someone in the community who had gone astray, or who flagrantly opposes a teaching/teachings of the Sages. It would not apply to the Nazis, since they were never considered Jews in the first place, neither obligated to keep our laws. However, a curse would indeed be applicable to them. In Yemen, whenever the community suffered at the hands of the Moslems, they would assemble in their synagogues, take out the most revered scroll of the Law (Torah), and recite Psalms as an imprecation against their tormentors, more notably Psalm 109. This Psalm worked wonders in Yemen!

Sincerely,
David

Also consider the situation regarding David HaMelech when Shimi (I think that's the name) curses him... David leaves off punishing him and Shlomo HaMelech exacts the proper justice for Shimi's cursing of the King.... Also look at the story of Avigal...
In the case of Ben Hedyah in Brachot nun-vav it is interesting to note that Ben Hadyah knew that galut might be a kaparah, however he didn't pay close attention to Rava's curse, which is fulfilled in the end of the agadah.
Of course there is always HaShem's promise of: "I will bless those who bless you, and curse ..." Yet, that applies to Jews, and it is interesting how all the governments in history that "cursed" the Jews, calling us a problem have basically declined... Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Napolean (though he passed freedom acts, his intent was that Jews should assimulate into his Imperial Republic); Ottoman Empire, various Crusader States, the Mongols (who had the largest empire in history during most of which they elevated Jews to Imperial positions over Arab/Muslims, and then they sacked Jerusalem and it was downhill from there....) and of course the Big four Rome, Greece, Assyria, and Babylon...
read hilachot lashon also...
have a great Shabbat