Could someone help me with something please...the person i am in love with just told me they have met someone and are getting married.

I am in alot of pain and do not know what to do...should i tear my clothes, beacuse the pain feels the same as if someone has died...and i don't know what to do...i can't stop crying and try drink lots of hot tea...but it isn't helping

what should one do in this case? Should i go to israel and pray at the wall? but what should i pray for...i know i should be happy for him, but all i can do is cry

You should focus on your growth, on letting go, and on moving on. To continue to prey on this man, or his betrothed at this point creates a phenomenal sin burden.

Take the high road. The greates gift you can give yourself right now is self respect.

Shalom Aleijem

Be brave !!! Go outside and look the marvelous universe How great The works of G-d for love. that every movement is decreed by his will.
You are a team member of a crew destined to fullfill this world`s needs of altruism and love (opposite of egoism). So you have the entire world besides you waiting for your redirecting energy to start moving toward a new and wonderful light. Life is sensing that he who creates everything for his delight has given the right KLIP to each one of us to find the lows and work our way up to a situation where every one of us finds a way back to happiness ascending from malchut to keter.
Go strong my dear and feel life is a timeless line within two boundaries of magnificient attributes. Remember that when one person is born There is already decreed is mate from Olam Haba. It is you and your other half (mate) job to work you way up to recognize harmony imprinted in our obligation to multiply, protect and care.
Yasher Koach!!!

Lej Leshalom

quote:

Originally posted by ochoa romero dominguez valles:
Shalom Aleijem

Be brave !!! Go outside and look the marvelous universe How great The works of G-d for love. that every movement is decreed by his will.
You are a team member of a crew destined to fullfill this world`s needs of altruism and love (opposite of egoism). So you have the entire world besides you waiting for your redirecting energy to start moving toward a new and wonderful light. Life is sensing that he who creates everything for his delight has given the right KLIP to each one of us to find the lows and work our way up to a situation where every one of us finds a way back to happiness ascending from malchut to keter.
Go strong my dear and feel life is a timeless line within two boundaries of magnificient attributes. Remember that when one person is born There is already decreed is mate from Olam Haba. It is you and your other half (mate) job to work you way up to recognize harmony imprinted in our obligation to multiply, protect and care.
Yasher Koach!!!

Lej Leshalom

thank you ochoa your words are very kind and just what i needed to hear B"H

Miriam, i only just in last few days learned of these news, but yes i will take to heart your advices

Katja,

I'm sorry about your plight. As you know, in Yiddishkeit we all have multiple opinions on everything. Being dumped is part of life. I don't know why the Kadosh Baruch Hu created it that way.

Anyway, IMHO getting yourself another love is the easiest way to get over it. Even just the pursuit of another love will help a little. But that's my humble little opinion. Shidduch in Yiddishkeit is difficult too. This is one area in which we have managed to make something that should be relatively simple very, very complicated. Even people who seem to be perfect for each other will find everything wrong with each other. So we have a flood of 30 something single Jews who don't want one another and complain they can't find a shidduch.

As for you; people who are close to you, know you well and love you, are best to give you the best advice and opinion on such matters. We are all different.

Shalom
Avi

Katja, it's not and easy road that you walk. I have been there. As the filters, the klippoth, fall away you will see, and it will be good.

quote:

Originally posted by Walter Vaughn:
Hello Katja.
Does this gentleman know the way you feel about him? Normally someone does not decide to get married over night without their being a prolonged engagement. You seem shocked by this news. Were you aware he was seeing someone else? Were you dating him when you got this heart breaking news? Many unanswered questions makes it difficult to respond to your call for help.
Sincerely,
Walter

I appologise, as i am not certain that i should have bought my problem here...but appreciate all the help everyone is giving me...i think i just need to talk about it and am feeling much better after listening to all your advice...it is good advice

Walter, he had not told me about this person until now, but only recently became gf/bf, about two weeks ago. They met and he is obviously ready to get married and made the decision - they will marry in 6 months.

We had been friends for over three years and he had at one stage shown interest in me as more than a friend, and i likewise. We had discussed dating to see if we might explore that option, but i guess i left it too long for making this decision and someone else came along for him to fulfil his dreams.

You are correct, it is more complicated than it seems. I was his first choice, but i did not make myself clear and was not consistent. I guess i always thought that he would be there and that he would wait for me and when i was ready, we could be together, it would happen.

but G-d wants us to do some action too and i wasn't doing enough of that...these are just the conclusion i came to yesterday after going for a long walk...

no action = nothing will happen = disapointment

i am sorry, it is all my fault and i realise this now..i have accepted it and i own it

quote:

Originally posted by Miriam Cohen:
Katja, it's not and easy road that you walk. I have been there. As the filters, the klippoth, fall away you will see, and it will be good.

Thank you Miriam, you are very kind...i am going to try and re-direct my energy into doing something positive

quote:

it is more complicated than it seems. I was his first choice, but i did not make myself clear and was not consistent.

Katja, you are owning much more of the situation than you ought. It is quite possible that he simply has found his bashert, and now it is time. He may even have known her all his life and over looked his feelings. Maybe he legitimately felt one way and it was simply time. You can never know. It is unknowable. It is the thumbprint of G-d. It is the fullness of His time. Perhaps that is why you didn't "act on it" sooner. Your soul knew the reason. To have entered the relationship would only have been your detriment. Time does not heal all wounds, I won't lie to you. It DOES, however, make us wise to our own lapses in judgement or lack of insight, and it always softens the blow to the point that we can take it. It's basically, a leartning curve. You will do it.

thank you walter(F)

thank you miriam(F)

everyone's words are very comforting

What I'm reading on this thread suggests that we are too enamored with the goyish ways of doing things. Sure our forefather waited 7 years for his bride but that was not ideal, it was extorsion....and he was a holy man. The Jewish way is short engagements and marriage.

All this stuff about waiting for your loved one forever is obsessive goyish soap opera stuff. It's not the Jewish way. It deceives women into thinking they can wait forever while their marriageability is slipping away. It's not fair, particularly to women.

Avi

Yaakov set the "7 year" price himself, right? That wasn't extortion.

The wait between the substitute and the intended may have only been 1 week of 7 days... is that extorsion?

Quote "Yaakov set the "7 year" price himself, right? That wasn't extortion."

Yes, because he knew who he was dealing with. He knew without that there was no deal. Rashi brings down that Rachel and Leah said they were treated like strangers. Daughters are given a dowry to marry them off, not being used as a commodity to get someone to work for the father

Walter,

Do you know the Jewish tradition for finding a wife?

Even what we call "love" is so much our own biology...although we like to call it "chemistry". It's all great, the Kadosh Baruch Hu, in His wisdom, gave it to us to encourage procreation, but it was never the basis for marriage within our tradition. Marriage is based upon principles that are quite apart from our feelings and biological trappings. While they are good, they are not reliable. We cannot use them to wait for a person for years, that's obsessive insanity. It makes for good raunchy novels and soap operas but not for Jewish marriage.

There are many women who feel they have played by the rules and waited and waited and never found a mate because they listened to this soap opera stuff instead of marrying the excellent Jewish man who came along but didn't have that "chemistry" (which is really sexual tension) and waited for the elusive bashert who doesn't exist while their marriagebility slipped away.

Shabbat Shalom

Moshe

Rob,
Even if I were to agree with you that it was not extorsion, our forefather was an exceptionally holy man, he could wait 7 years. None of us is that holy and it would be unrealistic to model ourselves after such a holy model. Our tradition has been short engagements (less than year) and marriage.
Avi

I agree with Avi, completely. Of course evryone "falls in love" and then gets divorce within the year.

And what happens if you falll inlove with someone that's not jewish or doesn't have the same spiritual values as you have. The Jewish idea of marriage is a more mature idea. It's someone that you hold the same values with. it's someone tht your going to build a Bayis ne'mon B'Yisrael with.

Theerefore since your goals are loftier, and not the only criteria is that momenterally you have good feeling, the marriage lasts.

David turns to Torah Study for safety and comfort and asks G-d for Help, he asks that G-d make all his words the words of Torah so that he might not sin. G_d then puts 'a new song' in his mouth.

so too, I will turn to torah study, so that i don't fall down and hopefully all my words will be words of Torah and my thoughts of Torah and then my actions will translate into Torah and then how can I fall.

quote:

. But if your going to live by every utterence of our fathers, then do not pick and choose. Live it all.

Walter,

I would like to understand your position on this. There are three possibilities. What do you choose to do with the Torah. Do you just regard the whole thing , Thus being an Apikores (heretic.) Or do you pick whatever you feel is correct (which is also a heretic, that your not conforming to the religion but rather doing whatever you feel fit and reject whatever you want, which is also picking and choosing.)

Now,we do have a system and a way of dealing with medical gemaras, that are already mentioned in the Geonim, so we have some Geder to what to adhere to and what to ignore. But what is your system that your making up?

besides, the examples that you brought are really horrible. I don't think there is anything illogical of someone having a nutritious breakfast daily that it shouldn't help with his physical and psychological ability. Secondly, the gemara in Shabbos was just mentioning how they did it then to tell us how much people set it aside for what use to know how much of it is carried on Shabbos would be Chayiv. Though I know you hadn't learned Mesechta Shabbos nor Bava Metziah for that, just clinging on to other's quotes.

Even in this subject, i think the Orthodox Jew's record in marriage and divorce is so much superior than the basic secular or goyish world. There everyone "falls in love" and a marriage that would last anyplace from forever to 5 minuets. (People change their minds very fast, don't they?)

Walter,

Let me start by saying I have a few degrees after my name including a PhD and an MD. I understand science more than most. Everything said in your quote is true. I would need to write a book to touch on all the issues mentioned and demonstrate to you scientifically that they are true.

Torah and the sages are way ahead of science. Science will always be catching up to Torah. When they say Torah is the blueprint of the universe, it's not poetic hyperbole, it's literal. Many of us have bought into the enlightenment nonsense and feel that it's superior to our Torah....until new theories come along to destroy our ferociously loved ideas.

So should we follow the sages? Yes!!!
Avi

quote:

Originally posted by Avi d'Israeli:
What I'm reading on this thread suggests that we are too enamored with the goyish ways of doing things. Sure our forefather waited 7 years for his bride but that was not ideal, it was extorsion....and he was a holy man. The Jewish way is short engagements and marriage.

All this stuff about waiting for your loved one forever is obsessive goyish soap opera stuff. It's not the Jewish way. It deceives women into thinking they can wait forever while their marriageability is slipping away. It's not fair, particularly to women.

Avi

Avi, I completely agree. There are tremendous articles and great studies done upon the benefits of marriage via arrangement vs. "love" marriages. "Love marriages" while romantic ideas, rarely work out-- and when they do, they are the exception to the rule, not indicative of the normative condition.

I frankly believe that "taking things into our own hands" inthe area of marriages, is precisely what has kept good Jews from finding their bashert/a. It stands to reason, that whenever we take matters into our own hands, thinking we know better than HaSH-m, we tend to lose our way. We are not trusting in that great mystical mind of HaSh-m to do that which He knows is the best for our lives. Granted, we have free will, but HaSh-m knows well what is our best match. Westernized civilization in particular has this false sense of control over their lives. The longer I go down the road ofmy own Spiritual reparation, the more I realize that true free will may be a complete myth.

My girls will be arranged. They both have asked for it to be so. Naturally you can reject whomever is presented to you, but the prayerful consideration of those wiser tzedakim than ourselves is a great tool in inviting His will into our lives. From the beginning it was thus.

I realize many will not agree with this comment, and that is fine. Agreement is over-rated anyway. But I will say that an ounce of respect is worth a pound of love any day. Sorry for the bluntness.