P.S. Just a side note-- I think there is so much superficiality in the search for a wife/husband these days. Much of it likely based upon the over-emphasis of appearance. Doesn't it stand to reason that a man who is "taken" by a woman he desires to take as wife, be thus taken by her mind rather than her physical beauty? Granted--the beauty could be peripheral gift (temporarily, anyway) but the minds are what should be in sync. Rivka was brought home without her husband having ever seen her--and what a jewel she was!! Faith, prayer brought them together, not "appetites".

In your part of Texas do they "arrange" marriages with or without the shotgun?

Walter,
Torah is always right. The only times that our gedolim go wrong is when they try to appease the scientists of their generation by regurgitating the scientific theories of the day. Scientific theories of the day will always become obsolete, Torah never does. Today there are many gedolim who fall into this trap. Science should be judged by Torah, not the other way round.
Avi

Jeff:

Haha! This IS a strange part of the world. Most arranged marriages in Houston are international. I don't know how they do it in the sticks.

Walter,

You don't have to be sorry. My being a doctor should not matter. Torah is all that matters. To be fair to you, there is a time I looked at the world the way you do. But one day it hit me that we are not as smart as we think. The sages were among the smartest people of their generation and they cannot be easily dismissed.

Today in science, it's the absurd finding that is the watershed discovery. The goop at the bottom of the flask that become nylon, the mold spores that killed all the bacteria, and of course, you've heard how viagra was accidentally discovered in clinical trials meant for some other ailment. In fact, all paradigm shifts are oblique to the prevailing wisdom of the day. They are usually controversial or simply absurd. So when you read something absurd attributed to the sages, take a closer look at it. It may just be our next scientific paradigm shift.

Avi

Walter--May HaSh-m bless you in your journey. Do not stop educating yourself. No one is judging you. Avi is a great source for information and inspiration. Yocheved

Quote "In your part of Texas do they "arrange" marriages with or without the shotgun?"

I think she meant prearranging the meeting like all orthodox do. Excluding just meeting people on the streets or in college, as done in the secular world. Of course your not allowed to just force someone to marry someone else without them saying that they want to marry this person.

That's why we do it by having the parents checking out the background of the potential etc. but the final decision rests on those that are being married.

quote:

Posted January 28, 2007 08:32 PM Hide Post
In your part of Texas do they "arrange" marriages with or without the shotgun?

I don't know about Texas, but I can speak for a few small college towns in Mississippi

I think I'm the only person in the place that tries to temper my book learnin', limited though it may be, against my heart and my discernment to be the will of G-d.

Arrangement is great. Absolutely the way to go. However, as with anything, one must take absolute care in insuring the sidduchin {yes, I believe for a change my usage may even be somewhat correct) are worthy of your submission. As so is the case with both parties to the arrangement. I see it as a divine trust. Getting someone else's ego into the mix creates only catastrophically distruction. Consider the case of a man who goes off in search of a gene pool only. He then finds himself committed to a woman who has let's say, a few undesireable "habits". She doesn't love him. She can't she's incapable, but he has money and will provide. Okay the stage is set for the horrors to ensue. Let's furhter aggravate this debate by saying he has second thoughts beforehand but his "focus group" urges him one. He finds himeself approaching old age rapidly to find his whole life has been a lie. His wife used and disgraced hime the whole time. To make things worse, he could lose everything by staying with it, but he is afraid more of what he will lose by getting out. Provide he has a conscience, what in could ever compensate for his pain, emnotionally, physically, but most of all spiritually?

The whole key to submission is being conformed to HaShem, and surrounding yourself with like minded people. Not just in the superficial rituals of daily life, but the hearts that are willing to be broken to be His pride.

It's not the stuff, or the ritual, but the humility, dignity, sincerity and respect that make it all it's highest fulfillment. Without that, it's just words on a page, laws that are despised until it's time to cover our heads and put on a good show. It means nothing.

Miriam Cohen,

I must mention a caveat about "arranged" marriages. The shidduch worked best in communities where, at least, the parents knew one another and knew their grandparents etc. So there really weren't many surprises because there was longstanding constancy there. Today shidduch is trickier because most shidduch is being tried on people who are total strangers, BTs who were drug addicts etc. Furthermore, matches were done at a very young age..16 to 25 perhaps. Today we are doing them at 30 to 50. At these ages people have a lot more baggage to wade through, making the shidduch problem even more complicated.

Avi

Avi--
True and good point.

Avi, erev tov, and thank you for your feedback. I think it is safe to say that anyone under the age of 30 or forty who hasn't accumulated any baggage hasn't left his mother''s home and tried to live his life. truthfully it lends itself to a lot of the blind leading the blind. You tend to get what you pay for. Should you enlist the services of a relative who say, is in the mob, you let yourself in for all the disappointment and heartache that would breed. Again, I believe you must choose your masters wisely. Your eternal soul is much too much to be entrusted to someone who isn't up to the task.

Baggage is one thing. Making someone else carry it is quite another thing altogether.

While rereading some of these posts I realize how very wrong our Western Civilization handles this issue on a whole. The results are inarguable. Divorces abound at a climbing 54% (-+, depending upon which source you look quote) which means you literally have a better chance of flipping a coin and landing on "heads" than you have in succeeding in a marriage in America, and yet, people still argue that "love marriages" are best-- completely ignoring the facts.

Marriages based upon common values, shared vision and religion are not new nor are they only practiced in Yisrael. Eastern countries such as India have been basing marriages on just such ideas for thousands of years. While not without their failings (as all countries have) they have a very small divorce rate.

In this fast-food, have a headache--pop a pill, have a baby you don't want, abort it--have a husband you don't want, leave him, country, we see an epidemic of quick cures and easy outs. Even contracts have less weight.

As many grand things that exist in this land of opportunity, so many things (NAMELY THE IDEA OF COMMITMENT) have eroded away completely.

My 11-year-old daughter says two things that always strike me--

"Peyos, don't marry without them!"
and
"Love is not a feeling-- it is commitment and respect"

Out of the mouths of babes........