B"H

Rob,

If I might add one more thing, since we are on this subject. The Rabbis have a saying:
עין רואה ולב חומד וכלי ידים גומרים

Translated: "The eye sees, and the heart desires, and the hands finish [the act]."

Without strictures, the Internet can be very dangerous for most people! I have a filter installed on my computer, but it still does not block all soliciting of this nature.

David

Quote "For example, if one tries and fails to be a false (zoma) witness, is there not a halacha that he is not punished as a zoma witness since unless he succeeds he is not a zoma witness?"

Just the opposite, we say we only punish him "Ka'asher Zomeh", how he schemed, but not "Ka'asher USah" as he did. So only if the punishment on the victim didn't take place yet that we punish the witnesses. But if the punishment happens, so Beis Din can't touch the witnesses, and we must rely on punishment from heaven.

But this is not the issue. I talked to a friend today that is involved in the community. He claims that there is a lot of kids out there getting messed up from it, which he had to get involved in many of the cases. Even if an individual can hold himself back, but for the community at large must realise the dangers involved with it. To save people from going astray, we must make enactments to resolve the problem. The Internet does have very good stuff on it, but there is also Very bad stuff, and the reality is that a lot do get messed up because of it. So we must get solutions and not just say "let everyone just control themselves." We're all responsible for all Jews and all our children.

Dear Rav Chaim:

Has your friend even once intervened in a case of a young boy who developed an infatuation for the supermodels of glamorous advertisements on public transportation?

Where was the outrage that telephones need to be outlawed after President Clinton revealed to the world that there exists such a thing as telephone abuse in such a smutty way?

Please show me the consistency that this principle has been applied to other communications mechanisms that had potential for abuse, but which Hashem entrusted to a generation for good use?

Furthermore, those who cannot distinguish between what is the internet and what is the particular internet-based service call the World Wide Web (or the HTTP protol, conveying HTML content) have no business proclaiming on behalf of the klal how the one or the other should be used or avoided, in my humble opinion.

Perhaps between the various gadolim who have encouraged Rav Mitterhoff to not walk away from the Global Yeshiva project, or who have encouraged Rav Chaim to post Torah learning at the Global Yeshiva, or another, there would be at least one Gadol with whom I could speak about really understanding what is the technology and what are the actual issues, to see if there might be a solution which should satisfy the detractors who seem to repeat the same misunderstandings?

quote:

Originally posted by rob:
Dear Rav Chaim:

Has your friend even once intervened in a case of a young boy who developed an infatuation for the supermodels of glamorous advertisements on public transportation?

Where was the outrage that telephones need to be outlawed after President Clinton revealed to the world that there exists such a thing as telephone abuse in such a smutty way?

Please show me the consistency that this principle has been applied to other communications mechanisms that had potential for abuse, but which Hashem entrusted to a generation for good use?

Rob,

You're comparing a BB-gun with an AK-47 automatic assualt rifle. The damages caused by the telephone line and by posters advertised in public places are SMALL in comparison to the damages caused by the Internet!

David

Actually- as for telephones- I have heard that in fact there are some yeshivos that ban cell phones being owned and operated by their students while in the school because of the chances of abusing the phone and the internet and text msging that may come along with it.

We can argue about the Chilukim between all the different things. But the point is that it's moot. The reason why Gedolim are against one and are not vocal about the other, is because the Metzias is, that one has proved itself to be alarmingly dangerous and the others not. I'm in my own world. I sit in the Bais Medrish all day and not involved in community. I don't know first hand what's happening, and this is what the people in the field tells me what's happening. That's all I can work on. If you know statistically they're all the same, then you have a point. But if all you're going on some logical argument, then you don't have what to stand on if the facts are not on your side.

If you really want to, go out there, talk to people that work with kids, teachers, principles or others. The Gedolim are not just saying from there own logical arguments locked up in their offices someplace. When these things happen in the Jewish community, though they try to hush about it, to protect those that are involved, but the Gedolim are involved. Principles and teachers and Askonim that are involved and see what's happening, where do you think they report it to? So the gedolim get to see the real picture what is happening out there.

The Gadol that encouraged me was not for people having Internet, but rather for those that have Internet anyhow should have positive things to use it for, or else, they'll only have the garbage on it.

A friend just e-mailed this to me
http://www.frumspace.com/
I think it's in line with what we've been discussing. Whether it will evolve into a comprehensive portal or not, I don't know.