[/QUOTE

If she wasn't Jewish then she is not halachically married. If she then converted, she couldn't remarry her husband if he is a Kohen.

A Jewish woman cannot divorce her husband; only the other way around.[/QUOTE]

Then she was Jewish already and did not need to convert, since she was married to a Kohen and the rabbi told her that she could not divorce her husband because she is a woman, and he could not divorce her since she has mental illness. Then they were considered Halachically married, right?

I still don't know the answer to this question.


If they are halachically married, as the rabbi explained how they were, that they can't divorce each other, then a get is totally impossible or out of the question. Am I right?

If so, what is it called? I suppose it is just called "married", whether they are living together or not.

Raybin,

Perhaps I could recap what I believe your question is;

1. A woman is presumed to be Jewish.
2. She learns from an orthodox rabbi who doesn't think she needs to convert.
3. She marries a kohane and her chupa and ketuba are halachically legitimate.
4. She discovers she was switched at birth and is really not Jewish, and now she wants a conversion.
Q1. Does this discovery nullify her ketuba?
Q2. Does she now become unpermitted to her kohane husband?
Q3. Is she married or is she not?

5. She now wants a conversion to make things right.

Q4. If she converts what becomes the status of her marriage?
Q5. Would the kohane be required to divorce her?
Q6. What if the kohane has mental illness to the point that he cannot divorce her?
Q7. Would she require a get?

These questions are beyond me. Perhaps our illustrious Chachamim on GY can answer them.

No, my question is more the way I worded it the original way.

When two Jews are halachically married, and the husband cannot halachically divorce his wife, is that marriage called something, since a get is not even an option. I mean, since it isn't even an option, then the terms agun and agunah wouldn't even apply to them. However, they still remain halachically married.

If they are halachically married, they can halachically divorce. But if there are extenuating circumstances whereby he or she is mentally incapable, then they are stuck with each other. He cannot divorce her if HE is mentally incapable. He cannot divorce her if SHE is mentally incapable. It's a form of reverse aguna I guess.

There ARE extentuating circumstances, dealing with all different kinds of disabilities.

Raybin: Then it is just called "married". They are stuck with each other.

This may sound backwards, but there is an exception to every rule in Judaism. Has there ever been a case where the husband and wife are married but the husband cannot perform all of his duties as a husband and so requires other men to help. It is as if the other men would be an extension of her husband. Not that the relationships are sexual, but marital in nature.
So that her needs are met, since they are not living together. Perhaps it is like a king and his knights. If they can't divorce because she is incapable, and he doesn't want to live with her how else would she survive?
Is that at all kosher?

From Yeshke to goy lesbians to whether or not Lillith was on top to surrogate husbands not to mention the stuff that actually does get deleted. This website gets more bizarre every day.

Raybin,
You come up with a racy situation, but halacha addresses it.

quote:

Has there ever been a case where the husband and wife are married but the husband cannot perform all of his duties as a husband and so requires other men to help. It is as if the other men would be an extension of her husband. Not that the relationships are sexual, but marital in nature.

Yes, there is a provision for it. All the man needs to do is to divorce his wife and she can get to pick whatever stud she needs.

quote:

If they can't divorce because she is incapable, and he doesn't want to live with her how else would she survive?
Is that at all kosher?

If she is not able to perform her duties as a wife, halacha (at least for Sephardim and Teimanim) allows the man to get another wife in addition to the one he already has. Among the Ashkenazim it's not clear...I think they simply require 100 rabbonim to sign off on it.

Avi

Jeff K,
Welcome to GY!!! The Sages teach that Torah is the blueprint of the universe. As you can tell, our universe is full of all sorts of bizare stuff.
Shalom
Avi

There are many issues which seem not to appeal to the general scholar that interest me to no end. FOr instance, the fact of Yocheved's (my name's sake) being married to her uncle, and the great Rabeinu Moshe being born of a union which is now forbidden to us--but wasn't at that time because Torah had not been given. Issues like this and the issues of Kosher LIes which is discussed on another thread, I like them because they make me see new things, they educate beyond the surface of issues and stories, and help me to understand more of HaSH-m's holiness, but mostly because if there is anything I have learned about Torah, it is that THERE ARE NO MEANINGLESS DETAILS. Everything recorded has a message and a meaning and is a branch on the Eytz Hayim. Thus, I don't like to dismiss any of them (for they may be the very branch I am clinging to !!) Many desire to study the main stories and their messages and they are all they want/need/ and the focus lies elsewhere, such as focusing on relationship with G-d... but for me, THIS IS part of my relationship with G-d is studying, debating, unraveling the ball of yarn...etc. This doesn't make it better or worse, only in a different place with HaSH-m and on a different road... it isn't mental gymnastics and for nought. It is no exercise in intelligence--It is simply a sincere effort to understand better, and to take complete advantage of the Torah knowledge of those who have gone before me, that is all. For what it is worth...

Quote "From Yeshke to goy lesbians to whether or not Lillith was on top to surrogate husbands not to mention the stuff that actually does get deleted. This website gets more bizarre every day."

To be fair, some of the topics are legitimate Shailos. Let's say Goy Lesbians. We have the Sifri that prohibits it to Jews because not to do what the Egyptions did. So, is this a criticism on the goyim for doing so, or it's just that we shouldn't lower ourselves to that, though it maybe OK for others if they want.

Further, we see that the Torah said that the goyim were punished for witchcraft, so R' Shimon said that it's proof that they are commanded not to do witchcraft, yet the Rabanan argue. So even there there is no Command, then we can say the same thing here.

Then you have the famous R' Elchonon that forbids you from doing anything you know Hashem doesn't want you to do, whether there is a specific command or not. So it's a very Torahdik Shaila. The Gemara alone asks some far out questions itself

Now, given, that not every topic can be truly Torah oriented, due to the nature of the forum that anyone can post anything that they feel is important, which would then have others scoff, because to them it's not important, so Mimaila, we can't knock anything off unless it's really counter to Torah. but this doesn't diminish all the real torah that gets discussed on this Site. Where I write a very high level Mishna B'rura Shiur. My colleague, Rav Yisroel Issac wrote a whole Shtikal on Chezkas Momon. Rabbi Mitterhoff writes his Parsha posts etc. And countless other Torah insights among the posts (I have almost 1600 posts, so there are plenty of Torah on this Site if you would like. You just need to navigate to which type of discussions you like. Or you can start discussions that you want.