Ok, two situations:

Situation #1 My daughter asked me if it was permissible to bow (in respect for, not in worship of) a king or quessn, Jewish or not. Is that Avodah Zora? I told her that the Eytz Chayim says that David Melech's men bowed to him and said "Oh King, may you live forever..." so I didn't think it was wrong, so long as he was certainly NOT being worshipped. But as soon as I said that, I remembered that Mordecai would not bow before Haman (may his name be cursed forever) for the same reason, that we aren't supposed to bow to anyone/thing. Is it because he wasn't a Jewish king?

Situation #2 My other little girl was given a little porcelain angel for her birthday by a friend with her name on it. She doesn't know what to do with it and neither do I. It is not an idol obviously in that we would never worship it, yet, it is technically a "graven image" so... help!

I remember reading (perhaps someone can add to or correct what I'm saying) in the book "All For the Boss" by Ruchama Shain that Rabbi Herman broke the nose of a doll so that it wouldn't be Avodah Zorah.

But with an angel it may be a different case as an angel may be Avoda Zora.

Yocheved,

I once asked my Rav if it was permitted to kneel before Queen Elizabeth to be knighted. He said, of course it's an honor to all Jews if you got knighted.

But then I walked into the house of a Lubavitch Rav who had a beautiful carving of a giraffe in his living room about 6 ft tall and it wasn't nullified (no broken nose or toe or anything). I was surprised so I asked how he could have such statuary in his house. He said no one worships giraffes today so it's okay.

There are a lot of opinions out there. For me statuary must not resemble anything on earth or in the heavens (as the Torah teaches). So abstract statuary I would have in my home. Anything that resembles living things or celestial bodies I nullify. Reliefs are okay, portrature must not be full body otherwise it must be nullified. That's for me. If you want to hear from others you will get just about as many opinions.

As for your angel statuary; anything from the Christians I nicely wrap it up in gift wrap and say, "You know, I saw this angel and I thought of you. Here is my gift to you." Hopefully next time some crazy leader fires up the ovens, they will think of the wonderful gift I gave them. I'm sure many will disagree with me on this. But then, there are a lot of opinions out there.

Avoda Zara for Jews is stricter than for Goyim. Jews may not participate in any of the festivities or foods or items of avoda zara. Christianity is technically avoda zara, most Christians are in avoda zara but they are unaware so they are given "a break". However, Jews should know it's avoda zara, so they are judged more severely on it. Is giving a little angel gift to a goy aiding and abetting avoda zara? If it were, then a Jew couldn't sell stuff at Christmas time lest it be given for gifts, or Christmas trees etc. The Christmas tree is specific though. I think a Jew selling a Christmas tree is aiding and abetting avoda zara. See Yirmiyahu 10:1-10

Avi

quote:

I nicely wrap it up in gift wrap and say, "You know, I saw this angel and I thought of you. Here is my gift to you." Hopefully next time some crazy leader fires up the ovens, they will think of the wonderful gift I gave them.

I'm confused what you are saying. You give it back to the person who gave it to you?

Or you burn it in an oven using the wrapping paper as fuel?

We had a situation once in which an expensive small doll was given to one of our daughters as a birthday gift. I asked if it needed to be disfigured and the "no" answer I got included that the prohibition is on making idols, not necessarily owning them, and also that this doll would not be confused with an idol.

Where this doll is of an angel that may very well complicate things. Since there is apparently a specific halacha that the Rambam discusses which prohibits asking angels to do anything... which violates the principle of praying to an intercessor... if this doll specifically represents an angel, it could well be in a different category.

Quote "I remembered that Mordecai would not bow before Haman (may his name be cursed forever) for the same reason,"

Haman wore an idol around him. Also, he considered himself a god.

Quote "Situation #2 My other little girl was given a little porcelain angel for her birthday by a friend with her name on it. She doesn't know what to do with it and neither do I. It is not an idol obviously in that we would never worship it, yet, it is technically a "graven image" so... help!"

I don't think you need to break the whole nose. you could cut off a piece of the ear, so it's not a complete image. If there are no ears (as if the hair is covering where the ear piece would be, people are lenient in that too.

Haman wore an idol around him. Also, he considered himself a god.


Thankyou, I didn't know that!

I don't think you need to break the whole nose. you could cut off a piece of the ear, so it's not a complete image. If there are no ears (as if the hair is covering where the ear piece would be, people are lenient in that too.

--Bo offense, but I don't know if I am lenient in this. That is why I desire the information to decide. The "angel" issue still hasn't been settled to my satisfaction. Have you any thoughts on this, Rav?