An older relative has told me that they want to learn how to do things on these newfangled computers. He also wants me to do things for him on the computer which I believe he is capable of learning how to do himself, and I'll gladly show him or talk him through on the phone anytime.

At a recent visit he asked me to do something simple which I had previously offered to show him how to do at a prior visit, and I expressed that I would prefer to show him how during this visit, and not do it while he wasn't there at the computer.

Another family member who overheard expressed concern with my approach, not knowing the history of this particular matter. And we have discussed things further, and agreed to bring the matter here for input.

Basing my approach on wishing to empower my relative to be able to do these things on his own, I wish to feed him for his lifetime. And even if I have to demonstrate it several times, at least I feel I am bringing it closer to being learned.

My relative thinks this principle does not apply to an older person who may have trouble learning new things. He is in his mid-70's, to 120.

So, is there any commentary or tradition on this proverb which would address our machlokes?

Shalom Bayis is very important. That is #1.

Do you know the source of this "proverb"?

“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime.” -- Old Chinese Saying

Hmm, I thought I heard it as one of our proverbs... oh well.

I think I am now remembering that the last reference to it I read was in a secular book.

Now if his son is a better fisherman and they only have enough bait, I think Abaye deals with this situation in Kiddushin near daf 30.

I believe that it is an American Indian expression.

Of course this is related to the famous Rambam in Hilchos Matanos La'aniyim about the different levels of tzedaka - the highest level is giving him a job.

And even if it isn't a Jewish proverb per se, it does have a certain amount of emes to it.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Kopinsky:

And even if it isn't a Jewish proverb per se, it does have a certain amount of emes to it.

Michael

Michael, welcome to the Global Yeshiva,

Exactly, as we know that "Wisdom of the Gentiles we believe in" [Chochma Ba'goyim Ta'amin]. Therefore, it doesn't necessarily have to be from a Jewish source. And, on the other hand, isn't it true that everything comes from the Torah?

Here's some more with tongue in cheek:

“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you can sell him fishing equipment.”—Author unknown

“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to sell fish and he eats steak.”—Author unknown

SAM : Ha-Ha-Ha!! Haven't heard those. Where is it written "He who waters will also be watered" " Is that Proverbs?

I found those two somewhere on the web, glad you like them.

As to the verse you are referring to, would this be what you are looking for:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=16382

Chapter 11 Verse 25

A generous person will become rich, and he who sates [others] shall himself become sated as well.

.נֶפֶשׁ-בְּרָכָה תְדֻשָּׁן; וּמַרְוֶה, גַּם-הוּא יוֹרֶא

quote:

Originally posted by Sam-:


...as we know that "Wisdom of the Gentiles we believe in" [Chochma Ba'goyim Ta'amin]. Therefore, it doesn't necessarily have to be from a Jewish source. And, on the other hand, isn't it true that everything comes from the Torah?

"If any man says to you, ' There is worldly wisdom to be found among the gentiles,' believe him. But if he says to you, ' The Divine Law (Torah) is to be found among the gentiles,' do not believe him."

חכמה בגוים תאמין. תורה בגוים אל תאמין

At any rate, we find the Rabbis saying a very similar thing to the Chinese proverb. They say that better than giving a man charity ("tzadaka") is finding him some means of employment. It's the same principle.

David

And, on the other hand, isn't it true that everything comes from the Torah?[/QUOTE]

Ha Ha, sounds like a scene from 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding', where the father says give me any word and I will show you it's roots are greek. Truth be told though of course is that EVERYTHING is from Torah, this is obvious !

There is this concept that expressions are said in the Torah as it says in Sanhedrin 7a and is paraphrased by Kollel Iyun Hadaf

(f) A man (Tuvya) used to say 'Because I hear people abuse me and keep quiet, I am exempted from misfortunes.'

(g) (Shmuel): "Poter Mayim Reishis *Madon*" - one who begins a dispute initiates 100 judgments (Me'ah Dinim).

(h) A certain man used to say 'It is common that a person is not punished (immediately) for two or three transgressions.'

(i) (Shmuel): "...Al Sheloshah Pishei Yisrael v'Al Arba'ah Lo Ashivenu" (but he will be punished for the fourth).

(j) A certain man used to say 'A peaceable person will be saved from seven pits, a Rasha will fall in the first'.

(k) (Shmuel): We learn this from "Ki Sheva Yipol Tzaidk va'Kam u'Rsha'im Yikashelu v'Ra'ah".

(l) A certain man used to say 'If Beis Din took a person's garment, he should rejoice (he was saved from sin)'.

(m) (Shmuel): We learn this from "(If you will appoint judges) Ha'Am ha'Zeh...Yavo v'Shalom".

(n) A certain man used to say 'When a weaver naps, her basket drops from her head (and people do not know her trade).'

(o) (Shmuel): We learn this from "Ba'Atazaltayim Yimach ha'Mekareh"

(p) A certain man used to say 'The one I relied on raised his hand (Aruch - his weapon) against me'.

(q) (Shmuel): We learn this from "Gam Ish Shlomi Asher Batachti Bo (tried to kill me)"

(r) A certain man used to say 'When I was close with my wife, we could both fit on the blade of a sword; now that our love has waned, a bed 60 Amos wide does not suffice.'

(s) (Rav Huna): We learn this from the Mishkan: "...V'Dibarti Itecha me'Al ha'Kapores";

1. (Beraisa): The Aron was nine Tefachim tall, the Kapores (cover) was one Tefach thick;

2. "Shlomo built (the Beis ha'Mikdash)...u'Sheloshim Amah Komaso"; after Yisrael sinned, the Shechinah did not dwell there - "...Ha'Shamayim Kis'i Ei Zeh Vayis Asher Tivnu Li".