I think, contrary to the beliefs of many, but few here I am sure, that the torah provides an intuitive persons uncanny look into creation, as we understand it today scientifically. Imagine our distant ancestors with no computers, or telescopes, under tents in the desert, nothing at their disposal to recieve some kind of idea as to what was going on out there, and as to what happened to bring it about, in short, no data. Yet it is written

"And the earth was without form, and the void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep...
And God said, Let there be light and there was light."

We have all read it a thousand times, and I feel you can really appreciate the poetry and how in tune the author was with nature when you consider it parallels what we now know, The universe was dark and empty until a single point of something that does not exist today as anything we are familar with, exploded in a brilliance of light and small particles of matter that finally coagulated under their own gravity into what we see to today, the planets and their stars, whose systems form the myriad galaxies that take on shapes like sea shells.

I have decided to give my intuition full reign, as in the spirit of our ancestors, and see to what depth we can satisfy the mystical, given we have much more data at our disposal. The result has been an explosion of interconnections between the elements that comprise our universe, gold, nickel and copper, their properties, and things on a much larger scale, the stars and plantes, their luminosity, masses and distances from one another. There are many harmonies in these relationships, and they only give me more cause to believe that something extraordinary happened and that our ultimate destinies are no doubt wonderful and eternal. I am Jewish, don't let the name fool ya, I am Jewish by my mother, yet it is not clear to me whether in Judaism there is the belief in a hereafter, and hence this little project of mine, because I guess if I die, I won't know I am dead, so what is the problem? Yes, but then what is the meaning to anything we ever did, a song we wrote developing it until it brings contentment, and the ulitmate goal I think everyone would like know, how did something come into existence from nothing uncaused, i.e. God, or why was he eternal? But most importantly, I love my family very much and I don't want to say goodbye to any of them for an eternity. Back to the project, here is an excerpt from it, the rest is at my website in my profile, if your interested in this kind of a thing.
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I would just like to say that in this divination where I converted from cubic kilometers to cubic centimeters, I called them liters which are actually milliliters (for the volume of the earth). In the end, however, the calculation works because I form a ratio between two numbers that are both off by the same factor.

Here is a sort of divination I have created that makes use of the interesting fact that the elements, copper, nickel, and so forth, have the same molar masses no matter where on earth they are found. Molar masses, the relative masses of the atoms, can vary throughout the universe, but those on earth must have a common origin. It is these masses that are responsible for their properties and appearances. To get on with it, I am connecting the molar masses of the elements as they occur on Earth, which is at a micro-level, a property of atoms, to things on a cosmic scale, but not beyond the solar system, as beyond it is where data starts to become inaccurate. For example where we don't know the actual size of the andromeda galaxy, we know with a great deal of certainty the distance to mars from the sun. Here is an example:



We calculate the mass of the quantity of air that occupies the volume of the Earth at the normal human body temperature, 37 degree C, and one atmosphere of pressure, which is the pressure at sea level. Then, we do the same thing for water, but at its freezing temperature which is 0 degrees C, a temperature at which water cannot be a gas, but we apply the gas law in any case, to be surreal, because there are no doubt universes where the laws are different (or so it is theorized, that they are uncountable in number). The result is interesting.



The radius of the Earth at its equator is 6,378 km. Its volume is approximately given by:



V=(4/3)(pi)r^3



Where r is its radius, which equals 6378km.



Therefore r^3=(6378km)^3=2.59E11km^3



(2.59E11km^3)(pi)(4/3)=1.08E12km^3



We now convert to liters.



(1.08E12km^3)(1000m)^3(100cm)^3=1.08E27L



Since the atmosphere is more or less 21% oxygen gas (O_2) and 78% nitrogen gas (N_2)



Air=2[(16.00)(0.21)+(14.01)(0.78)]=28.5756



We use the ideal gas law to determine n, the number of moles



PV=nRT



R=0.0821(atm)(L)/(mol)(K)



P=pressure(atm) T=temperature(K) V=volume(L) n=moles(mol)



The pressure at sea level is one atmosphere (atm).



We convert centigrade to Kelvin:



37 deg C + 273 deg = 310 deg K



[(1)(1.08E27L)]/[(0.0821)(310K)]=4.24E25mol



We now convert the moles to the mass:



(4.24E25mol)(28.5756g)/(mol)=1.21E27g of air



Now for water:



H_2O=(1.008)2+16.00=18.016



Converting to Kelvin:



(O deg C) + (273 deg) = 273 deg K



[(1atm)(1.08E27L)]/[(0.0821)(273K)]=4.8E25mol



Converting moles to the mass



(4.8E25mol)(18.016g)/(mol)=8.6E26g of water

We now divide grams of air by that of water:
1.21E27/8.6E26=1.4
This is equal to the division of gold (Au) by silver (Ag) multiplied by a factor of the life elements carbon (C) over oxygen (O) which is (0.75):
(Au/Ag)(C/O)=(197.0/107.9)(12.01/16.01)=1.4

We see that in this imaginary universe we have significance in relationship to the precious metals for which jewelry is made where the sacred volume of this life-bearing planet is concerned.



Even more accurately is what this says is that the mass of one atom of gold is to the mass of one atom of silver as the mass of air is to the mass of water at the normal human body temperature and freezing temperature of water, respectively.



Air and water are essential to human life, indeed to all life on Earth as far as I know and gold and silver are the precious metals used to make fine jewelry.



I would say this means that gold and silver are what I would call the life elements of the Earth.



My derivation says that silver and gold should be associated with the Earth where life is concerned, but according to astrology.com, silver is the moon element and gold is the sun element. I find everything ties together if you consider that the earth-moon distance (EM) is to the solar radius (SR) as silver (Ag) is to gold (Au). Here is the calculation:



EM/SR=3.84E10cm/6.9599E10=0.55



Ag/Au=107.9/197.0=0.55



That is the Earth is like a hinge to the moon and the sun, or pivotal, in other words, to silver and gold.



Gold when associated with air is equated with silver when associated with water and they in turn are associated with the sun and moon respectively where the Earth is concerned. So what is the next logical thing to do? I would say find out the meaning of Gold and silver in dreams. In dreams gold means "easy come, easy go" and silver means "ignoring spiritual in favor of materialism." What on earth do these have to do with air and water respectively. Well the air we breathe is free and and water cleanses.



Empedocles in his Tetrasomia associated the greek elements, earth, air, fire and water with the greek gods and goddesses Hera, Zeus, Hades, and Nestis (believed to be Persephone) respectively. But the Four Elements are also associated with the tetrahedron, earth, the hexahedron (cube), air the octahedron, water the icosohedron and dodecahedron the ether, and sphere the void. So lets extract from these the air and water as they are related to gold and silver:



Air: Zeus, octahedron



Water: Nestis, icosohedron



Now the octahedron and icosohedron are according to Buckminster Fuller two of the three structural systems, the third being the tetrahedron. That is, they are the only stable non collapsing flexcorner configurations. So, it looks like allot of doors start to open up.



It is said in astrology there are four elements, earth, air, fire, water, a square has its base the same as its height, and 3 modalities, for every two propositions there is an inference and the triangle is the minimal structure to enclose an area.



The product of 3 modalities and 4 elements is:



12 modality-elements



which is gold, since it is said in astrology gold embodies the properties of all of the metals.



Also 12 is divisible by more of its predecessors for its size than any other number (by 1,2,3,4,6).



I would let silver be represented by 9 since it is the next largest number divisible by 3 modalities, and it is the next most precious metal. We have



(3 modalities)(3modalities)=9modalites^2



So that



gold/silver=(12modality-elements)/(9modalities^2)=



(4 elements)/(3 modalities)



And therefore gold is the four elements and silver is the three modalities.



Also 4 is the 4+3=7 day weeks for the moon's complete cycle around the earth.

quote:

Originally posted by Ian Beardsley:
I think, contrary to the beliefs of many, but few here I am sure, that the torah provides an intuitive persons uncanny look into creation, as we understand it today scientifically. Imagine our distant ancestors with no computers, or telescopes, under tents in the desert, nothing at their disposal to recieve some kind of idea as to what was going on out there, and as to what happened to bring it about, in short, no data. Yet it is written

"And the earth was without form, and the void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep...
And God said, Let there be light and there was light."

We have all read it a thousand times, and I feel you can really appreciate the poetry and how in tune the author was with nature when you consider it parallels what we now know,

Given that the words you quote were in fact written by G-d Himself, it's little wonder that He "was in tune with nature!"

The rest of your posting is completely beyond me, I'm afraid.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Phillips:

quote:

Originally posted by Ian Beardsley:
I think, contrary to the beliefs of many, but few here I am sure, that the torah provides an intuitive persons uncanny look into creation, as we understand it today scientifically. Imagine our distant ancestors with no computers, or telescopes, under tents in the desert, nothing at their disposal to recieve some kind of idea as to what was going on out there, and as to what happened to bring it about, in short, no data. Yet it is written

"And the earth was without form, and the void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep...
And God said, Let there be light and there was light."

We have all read it a thousand times, and I feel you can really appreciate the poetry and how in tune the author was with nature when you consider it parallels what we now know,

Given that the words you quote were in fact written by G-d Himself, it's little wonder that He "was in tune with nature!"

The rest of your posting is completely beyond me, I'm afraid.

Well I am afraid I am a bit embarrassed. I thought "And G-d said" was narration. I just use my "Old Testament" as a Torah, now don't tell me they are not the same thing, though I would love to have a Torah, or can you only have those in a synagouge? It would seem to me the grand design of them is for institutional purposes. I just went for the first time in my life and loved it, especially the cantor, being a musician myself.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Phillips:

Given that the words you quote were in fact written by G-d Himself, it's little wonder that He "was in tune with nature!"
[/QUOTE]

Which raises the question, how did the Jewish people recieve the Torah? I know, for instance, Mohammed recieved the Koran, well, somewhere in Israel, as the place he did is a tourist attraction there, I believe the temple of the mount, and this is where all of the problems arise, the Moslems would not like to see the Jewish people restore it to the original temple of Solomon, I believe. A touchy situation indeed. Is all we have left of it is wailing wall, while they are without what would seem to me would be at the crux of their religion. I don't see a solution to the problem, which worries me allot. It seems like things just get worse and worse in the middle east, never better and better, no matter what folks there do and the world community in general, and indeed this is at the root of serious problems, as in we now have to pour billions into fighting terrorism while our schools are overcrowded and we are in dire need of becoming a space faring civilization (dwindling natural resources and over population).

The Torah can mean various things. It can mean the Written Torah, the 5 Books of Moses, or it can mean the Oral Torah, the body of work mainly comprised in the Talmud.

What you call the "Old Testament" (we don't use that appellation as that implies that there is a "New" one, which we don't believe there is) is the Bible or Tanach (a mnemonic for "Torah" (the 5 Books of Moses) "Nevi'im" (the books of the Prohets) and "Kesuvim" (the Writings, including Psalms, Song of Songs, etc.).

We believe that the Written Torah was dictated by G-d to Moses and he faithfully recorded every word. We also believe that the Oral Torah wasalso G-d given, having been told over to Moses and then passed on down through the generations.

The other books of the Bible were written by various people, the most well known being the Book of Psalms which was written by King David.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Phillips:
The Torah can mean various things. It can mean the Written Torah, the 5 Books of Moses, or it can mean the Oral Torah, the body of work mainly comprised in the Talmud.

What you call the "Old Testament" (we don't use that appellation as that implies that there is a "New" one, which we don't believe there is) is the Bible or Tanach (a mnemonic for "Torah" (the 5 Books of Moses) "Nevi'im" (the books of the Prohets) and "Kesuvim" (the Writings, including Psalms, Song of Songs, etc.).

We believe that the Written Torah was dictated by G-d to Moses and he faithfully recorded every word. We also believe that the Oral Torah wasalso G-d given, having been told over to Moses and then passed on down through the generations.

The other books of the Bible were written by various people, the most well known being the Book of Psalms which was written by King David.

Thank you, that really explains allot nicely, and brings allot of illumination to many of the terms used by this community, and will help allot going to synagouge, that is understand what is going on much better. Importantly too, I am thinking it is important to understand these things to be more in touch with the world. I am kind of embarassed by my ignorance in the area of history.

One more thing (which you mentioned in an earlier posting) is that the Torah used for public reading in the Synagogue is written on parchment in accordance with some very detailed rules. You could get one yourself but (a) it has no vowels or punctuation so you may find it difficult to read and (b) it would cost you in the region of $30,000!

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Phillips:
One more thing (which you mentioned in an earlier posting) is that the Torah used for public reading in the Synagogue is written on parchment in accordance with some very detailed rules. You could get one yourself but (a) it has no vowels or punctuation so you may find it difficult to read and (b) it would cost you in the region of $30,000!

Absolutely fascinating, and 30,000 is no drop in the bucket. Now I understand the importance at the Shabbat ceremomy I attended that they put on the donation of a Torah to the Synagogue. The price is not doubt due to the paper being all one piece of parchement and an artwork boot to kick (the ornate handles).

It's actually several pieces of parchment sewn together. There are 3 columns of text on each piece.

It takes a qualified Sofer (scribe) about a year to write a Torah.

a Torah scroll typically one wouldn't buy that for the home, however a torah as in chamush or a book. one can buy, in fact it is a good thing to have. Artscrolls publicatoin have a Tankh (torah prophets, and the writing) which is nice since it as both hebrew and english as well as a nice appniex with all sort of neat little tidbits of information.

Hello Ian, you can purchase the Artscroll edition of the Chumash as Mack suggested by looking at the choices at the website below.

http://www.mesorah.com/Categories/ste.html

Here's a link to a discussion on the Stone Edition of the Tanach:

http://globalyeshiva.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/407102038/m/972108959

Thank you Sam and Gila for the links, these are marvelous books. And I thought the Old Testament was the same thing, these are interpreted and translated by Rabbi's and a team of scholars, and include other books that you won't find in the bible.
Regards, Ian

Ian, there is something you may wish to look into if you wish to take this a step further than our Chumash. A Tanach and Medrash are very expensive volumes ( like an encyclopaedia) but are fascinating and really delve into the "Deep". The books are rally costly, but you can buy the CDs for 170.oo USD or so. YOu may want to learn a little more about our customs so you have a better frame of reference. YOu should also know that there are essentially three kinds of Synagogues, the Orthodox (like this forum tends to represent) which are the poeple most dedicated to taking every word of the Torah into account in our lives on a daily basis, an lie wht is called an observant lifestyle. These you often see appearing more conspicuously dressed with the tzitzis and peyos (side curls on the men). Then there are the Conservatives who live observantly, but have slightly more relaxed views as to the necessity of keeping the old customs of peyos, and hedge laws, etc. Then the Reform Jews, which embrace far more liberal and secular ways of doing things and whom may/may not live observantly at all but whom tend to congregate in Reform synagogues and still worship there albeit in a different manner.

Since the beliefs of these different groups differ greatly (and some conservative synagogues may lean nmore reform, or vice versa, or like my synagogue, may be conservative, leaning heavily Orthodox) the basic skeletal system is as I have laid out

I mention this because since you are early in your learning of our faith, yo may wish to investigate what kind of synagogue you are visiting so you understand from which perspective they are teaching.

I hope this is helpful, and good luck in your endeavors!

Shalom,
Yocheved