Should diaspora Jews become actively involved in the politics of their host communities? I know many on this board will think this a moot question, as Jews should be living in Eretz Yisrael. However, the point remains: as an intelligent, influential people, Jews are often thrust into the political arena, especially in the United States. They have an opportunity to ameliorate the lives of many people, to make a positive impact on society. At the same time, they have an obligation to represent the state -- an obvious conflict of interest for a people intended to serve HaShem's express will.

Chaim:

I will not pretend to represent the views of all modern Judaism-- only my own for whatever they are worth.

I am davening daily that the Orthodox Jewish man wins the Presidential race. I realize the terrible conflicts that can occur, however, I feel confident HaSh-m can show him the way through each and every challenge. Was not Mordecai himself used in a way such as this? Was not his daughter, Hadassah? And Yosef as well? I realize the argument is not curtailed when in the light of "Jews belong in Yisrael", and that not all of the aforementioned examples had that option. But we are not all in Yisrael. We do not all even have the MEANS to get to Yisrael. Should we not, therefore, be repairing the world as best we can from where we are? Are we not where we are because it pleased HaSh-m to have us born to whom and in the place which pleased Him? Even if we are to soon move home?

I for one am not content to sit and do nothing while I am waiting for HaSh-m to make the way for my move to eretz Yisrael. To me (and I am speaking,a sI said, for myself alone), to sit and do little/nothing in the way of active world-reparation while waiting is NO BETTER than those who defer responsibility for their lives' actions/inactions because they are overly focused upon the afterlife. We repair the little part of the world we are in. Blooming, where we are planted. At least this is what I teach my girls.

I agree, Yocheved. I am currently reading a book by Larry Sternberg called, "Why Jews Should Not Be Liberals". (I am also reading that book as a registered democrat, for what it's worth.) And while I do not agree with the author on many points, he posits an interesting thesis: that for many non-observant Jews in the United States, the government, or state, has usurped the role of Hashem. Secular laws are the new commandments, political correctness the new mussar. It's a terrible thought, but strikes me as valid (in some ways).

While I know that all Jews are spiritually connected to HaShem, some are not conscious of that fact. They sublimate their G-dly impulse to do good by looking to government.

HA!! I CANNOT BELIEVE IT!! I just bought that book! I am a registered independent. I'm sick of having to vote the best of the two bad ones. I am only about a third of the way through it now. Some of the book, I think he makes some assumptions about democrats that are FAR too generalized, as many are in the old vein of the great democratic ideas of days gone by, and are not at all alligned with some of the anti-Torah ideas that modernists in the movement seem to embrace and try to hijack the whole party. But overall, he has some good arguments on topics that I think should be revisited. I have so many strong beliefs which make great arguments for both sides, that I HAVE to be independent. How strange you too just got that book!

And yes, I agree with you. I personally feel it is wrong to totally and mindlessly embrace all of the ideas of any party simply because of your affiliation. While I realize there are moderates,a nd so forth, often, the united fronts defends ideas and postulates that are contrary to our faith (and that goes for both of them) but if we are working to repair the world, and stand by those things HaSh-m puts before us as worthy to "fight" for, then I believe Jews can and will do GREAT things via political positions when/if given the chance.

But again, I am concerned with a Jew's loyalties should he/she be elected into government. Say Lieberman somehow became president (a very hypothetical example, I know). His responsibilities, as with all Jews, lie completely with Israel. There is simply too much of a conflict there. Honestly, I do not think I would want a Jewish president in the United States. My fear, G-d forbid, is that he/she would show disfavor to Israel, just to assert loyalty to this country. In a way, a Jewish president would have no other choice. Every favorable action towards Israel would be interpreted by the American public as biased.

I'm not so sure that Lieberman as president is so far fetched an idea. At the rate that Democrats are so in love with Obama, if they nominate him, he cannot win. A McCain-Lieberman ticket could win. McCain and Lieberman are not "spring chickens". Anything could happen to McCain, leaving Lieberman as president of the US.
Having said that, the president of the US is allowed to have bias when it comes to Israel. Some have been biased against Israel but most have been biased in favor of Israel. If Lieberman turns out to be biased in favor of Israel, no one would nor should be surprised.

In the end it doesn't matter how it is interpreted? I am not saying it would be easy--or even that you aren't right that it may be too close to divided loyalties, but I am saying that his argumnet for favoring Yisrael could simply be: "We have been allies since the official formation of Yisrael as a State, and have been friends with the Jewish nation since George Washington was President here. I see no reason to dissolve that union simply because I too am a Jew. I honour all the treaties and alliances that came before me, and G-d willing, will come after me."

A letter from G. Washington:

"...It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support...

May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants; while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid.

May the father of all mercies scatter light, and not darkness, upon our paths, and make us all in our several vocations useful here, and in His own due time and way everlastingly happy.

G. Washington"

Avi--Hope you are right!

America's prosperity and its long history of tolerance (and even love) for the Jewish people is no coincidence. Those nations which respect us, flourish; HaShem said this, and history has shown this.

Avi, maybe I am just too skeptical of the goyim to agree with you. But then again, if they elected a Jew in the first place, maybe they would be ready to forgive his loyalties to Israel. However, in the end, his loyalties must be with Israel, and that is what troubles me. As president, a Jew would have to keep the interest of the US in mind. What if Israel, for whatever reason, had to take a stand against the US?

Torah teaches us to respect the laws of our host societies. But there is a fine difference between respecting those laws and becoming active participants in the legislation and enforcement of those laws. The United States is the first country to allow Jews to actively participate in government...as Torah Jews (I emphasize the word Torah, only because certain countries, like England and Germany, allowed assimilated, converted Jews in government) . It's a wonderful thing, but also potentially problematic.

And Avi: did you actually hear something about Lieberman running with McCain? That would really be interesting, and they would definitely have my vote.

They would likewise have mine.

As to the fine line-- you are right, of course, it wuold be a fine line, and a far more difficult task for a Jew to be a pres. of U.S. than a xtian, but aren't we supposed to all inour power to help with aiding the host country--even if to help to PREVENT anti-semitic turns in government by our very presence? Who would be our voice better than one of our own? I personally would not like the job, but if I found myself good at politics and in that arena, I wuold think that my duties as a Jewess would entail trying to do my best on that front for my people both here and abroad. Tough call.

This issue reminds me of the story of Esther; the entire Megillah can be seen as a treatise on Jews ruling in other nations. But the distinction lies in the fact that Esther, to my knowledge, was in the service of HaShem and her people, and acted accordingly. I would appreciate some member input on this actually.

A US president would have to legislate laws for goyim, about goyim, related to the activities of goyim, etc. G-d forbid, if there were a war between the US and Israel (again, G-d forbid), where would a Jewish president's loyalties lie?

Israel would never declare war against the US. The US could conceivably declare war against Israel but it would be under the watch of a Jewish president. The president is the one who actually declares war. It would be a very twisted world when a Jewish US president declared war on Israel.

If you recall King Darius was Queen Esther's son. So he was technically a Jew. If you also recall, he is the one who motivated the Jews to rebuild the second Temple. He might have even helped with the financing. Another Jew, D'Israeli, became prime minister of England. Like Darius, he wasn't a kosher Jew either.
Lieberman would be more kosher than both of them.

No one in america would expect the loyalty of an Jewish American President not to be with Israel.

I hope you're right, Avi.

Unfortunately, Benjamin D'Israeli converted to xtianity; otherwise, he would never have been elected. An American Jewish president would still be at the behest of the electorate, and ultimately, the American public. It's an interesting hypothetical case.

Personally, my loyalties would be unconditionally with Israel, so I would make a terrible US president. I just see too many conflicts of interest.

It's interesting to think, however, that maybe one of the signs that we are closer to the Messianic Age is that the American public would willingly, knowingly elect a president that would serve Israel. It might, providentially, play into the grand redemption!

Chaim--THAT is precisely why you would likely have made a GREAT president. THAT is what I am counting on out of Lieberman--please HaSh-m. Those who recognize the potentially terrible conflicts and are morally adverse to them, are the kinds of people needed in the office. Not those whom are morally challenged/compromised.

I think that a Jewish President will be a disaster. He will have to show that he isn't bias or if he won't he will be accused that he is biased. (The non Jewish Ambasadors to Israel where generally much better than the Jewish ones)
If anything goes wrong in the US like the economy going down or security issues the Jewish President will be blamed and then the Jews will be blamed.
Unfortunately History teaches us that in every period where the Jews had it good for sometime it didn't last. Eventually the Jews suffered. For some reason the Jews of America think nothing like that can happen in modern America.

Our home is not in Galuth and in the long run you can't count on it being good for Jews anywhere in Galuth.
Off course that isn't the reason Jews should come to Israel. Jews should come to Isreal because Hashem want's us in Israel.

You're right, Baruch. But unfortunately, some of us are not able to make aliyah right now (for a number of reasons). That is why I anticipated your remark in my question. Ideally, all Jews would be living in Israel, yes. However, that is not the case and this is a question pertaining to those Jews in exile.

And there are opinions, notably those of the Lubavitch Hasidim, that a Jew can fulfull his Divine mission on Earth in the galut, just as he can living in Eretz Yisrael. In fact, some believe that unless a Jew is spiritually prepared to fulfill all of the mitzvot to the fullest extent of his abilities, it is better that he repair the universe from outside Eretz Yisrael.

first of all I am not criticzing anyone for living in Galuth. There are many reasons that justify staying in Galuth.
I think every Jew should plan on moving to Israel at some point. It doesn't have to be right away. But it needs to be in your plan to be done as soon as you are ready. It also needs to be done in a planned manner so your aliya will be succesfull.

quote:

In fact, some believe that unless a Jew is spiritually prepared to fulfill all of the mitzvot to the fullest extent of his abilities, it is better that he repair the universe from outside Eretz Yisrael.

With all due respect to Chabad whom I respect for their great work in kiruv and providing Jewish life around the world, I don't buy that.

Chachamim tell us that the mitzva of living in Eretz Israel is equall to all other mitzvoth. And living in Galuth is like doing Avoda Zara.
It is better to living in Israel in a city which is all Idol Worshippers than living in Galuth in a city that is all Jewish.

Like I said there are many reasons to justify living in Galuth. I am not judging anyone and just trying to influence the general public. But lets not find excuses that it is better from a religous stand point to be living in Galuth.

Shalom Baruch,

That's one opinion, and a very influential one. It's not soley Chabad's either, but finds its origins somewhere in Torah. I will look for it. At the very least, it's an interesting perspective on things.

Baruch,
I'm with you on this one. Most people who don't believe in "Yishuv Yisrael now" are counting on some miracle to take care of it. The first time around it took us 40 years to get into that land and we fought wars to make it a reality. Today, the Bolshevic Israelis whom I used to despise because of their rudeness etc...have spilled their blood paving the way for us. Today we have an Israel to go to. It's not perfect. It didn't start out perfect the first time either. They have done most of the hard work...reclaiming swamps and bogs and planting forests,, and now the world's top high tech activity etc etc. All we need to do is move there. Even jobs are not as bad as they used to be. People can live a life almost as comfortable as in the US in Israel today. So for those who are waiting for a miracle, the miracle is happening but they refuse to recognize it because it does not fit into their idea of one.

Avi