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quote: Originally posted by Diny W.:
Hi, I'm new here and this happens to be the first post I've read. I hope you don't mind if I chime in.
Disciplining children is an extremely difficult task. It's not easy for anyone to raise a child, but with the right tools it can be made easier. Having four kids five and under, tantrums, whining, fighting, and disciplining are a way of life for me, baruch Hashem, along with joy, laughter, fun, and hugs, baruch Hashem.
I just wanted to comment on the situation Yocheved described with the child who screamed for four hours, and the ensuing disagreement with Raybin. I must sound like I'm trying to pleasse both sides, but I really do see why both sides feels the way they do, though I think in this case Yocheved did teh right thing.
Raybin, I would agree that under ordinary circumstances it is wrong to let a child scream for four hours. However, these are not ordinary circumstances, and this is not an ordinary child. This is a foster child who has been categorized as "irreparable" by state standards.
Like Raybin, I only have biological children, but I used to communicate with a foster mother and I learned a lot from her. A foster child like the once described has typically suffered terribly in her life, having been passed from home to home, lived on the streets, and in all likelihood suffered abuse. They have no sense of stability, and no trust in anyone but themselves. While al this stirs the pity in our hearts, and rightly so, it brings out certain survival/defense mechanisms in the child. The child can have severe anger and self-control issues, and be extremely manipulative in her attempt to have some control over her chaotic life.
One of the first jobs of a foster mother, and I've heard this from a foster mother, is to take away the child's "weapons." One of the weapons of many foster children is to threaten the parents that the child will call her caseworker to complain against the family or have herself removed. The appropriate response is to continue to love the child and speak kindly, but tell them you'd be happy to make the call right now, would she like you to? The answer is usually no, but in this way the child learns not to threaten the family in any way because it doesn't work and will only get her sent to yet another home if she follows through.
It takes a long time, a lot of love, and a tremendous amount of consistent, fair discipline to turn a child like that around and have them love you. But it can be done. Children need tremendous amounts of unconditional love, but they also need structure and limits. When the limits are firmly in place, and enforced in a kind but firm way, a child feels secure.
When one of my children wants something they shouldn't have and I say no, and all distractions fail, I let them cry and have a tantrum. Yes, I try to hug them or hold them and comfort them, but often in their anger and frustration they push me away, and I give them the space they need. Most often, after at most 10 minutes of crying they get to the point where they'll let me hold them, and I will - but I never give in. I don't teach my children that they get what they want by screaming.
Evidently, Yocheved's child learned that she can terrorize a family into giving in to her demands by screaming mercilessly for hours. An ordinary child would never scream for four hours straight. My own children would never do that. But a child who is completely out of control would. And, in this case, she did.
In the Torah, the right hand represents chessed (kindness) and the left hand represents gevurah (holding back). When we discipline a child, we should do so with both hands. So even though I'm firm with my children when necessary (gevurah), I soothe them at the same time (chessed). But only when they let me - sometimes they need that space to cool down first. In the case of an extreme child, such as this "irreparable" one, that could be four hours the first time. But as you can see, the second time she tried it she saw it wouldn't work and she stopped. She had learned to control herself.
The child learned a tough lesson, but a good lesson. The mother never made her feel abandoned, she made her presence known and tried to soothe her, she let her know she was there for her. She never gave in, but she continued to care for her and give her supper, and, most importantly of all, ever yelled or hit. This way, the child learned that while she was not in control of this family, and rightly so, she would also never be abused by it.
Raybin, please forgive me for saying this - since I don't know you what I'm about to say isn't personal - but your posts seem to be way more emotional and attacking than seems fitting. I get the sense that you have issues to work through. I also find it hard to believe that your children never cry - the only way that would be possible would be if you're giving them whatever they want, when they want it, which isn't good either. I hope I'm wrong, and I hope you can believe me that this is not meant to be a personal attack, just an outsider's observation.
Good Shabbos everyone.
Peace,
Diny
I hope noone minds that I bring this up again and respond, but I feel this issue is important. Not to attack anyone in a personal way but to continue to try to make a point which I feel is important enough to bring this up again. It is normal for young children to cry and depending on their developmental levels, some children cry more than others. Also, depending on their age NOTHING is going to automatically make them stop unless they grow out of it. I never said my children never cryed, I only said they never cryed for (what seemed to me to be) very long. Crying is a way for children to express their needs. Children cry when they are hungry, tired, stressed, or just need attention, etc. And a child's crying usually requires a response from their parents. To vow that you will never respond to them when they scream or cry is not meeting the needs of the child. Parents should always reserve the right to change their minds, and it should always be clear to the child, especially when the parents are making good decisions. And if they are engaging in such negative behavior as screaming, why should a parent allow the child to do it? Why doesn't the parents teach the child not to engage in negative thoughts? What is wrong with parental guidance and redirecting the child in a more positive direction? What is wrong with dialog and communication? Doesn't Hashem want us to talk by the wayside with our children? "If you strike a child strike him only with a shoelace." (Bava Batra 21a) This means when you disapline a child you should always use restraint, and err on the side of leniency. The fact that foster children can be "monsters"(I am only saying what I am picking up) does not mean that we should be exceptionally cruel to them, and ostracize them. There is a negative commandment in our Torah not to deal harshly with orphans. |
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