I'm looking for the pdf copy of the making of a gadol. Can anybody help me? Has anybody read it? What do you think? I heard the Cherem against it was removed, is that true?

If the Cherem was removed, i would of imagined it would be relitively easy to buy one in the stores. I know someone who has a copy, but I doubt he would lend it out cross country. You might try E-bay or something like that, but I hear it's very expensive. (I'm not endorsing getting the book. I myself refused to read it when offered to me.If someone feels that they only Assered it because not to endorse it, but not per se, I'm staying nutreul in the controversy)

interesting book.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: chaimel,

I would absolutely love to read this book. It is right up my alley.

I don't understand the resistence to it. I think that it would be quite valuble to analyze and come to some understanding of the psychodynamics and events that shape great Torah thinkers.

I too was troubled by the banning of "The Making of a Gadol." The son of Rav Yaakov Kamenetzky wrote a book about his great father, zatzal. I had heard that the reason of the banning was that the book seemed to make the Rav too human. This is the same criticism that was leveled against the Torah Temima's author, Rav Baruch Halevi Epstein, in writing Mekor Baruch, (in English, My Uncle the Netziv). The Netziv was portrayed as having struggled and having had human frailties. We were told not to read it. It's hard to learn from someone who was always a malach (angel). What can we learn from malachim? It would be easier to learn from a gadol and tzaddik who had to struggle to reach greatness. More and more books are being banned nowadays. One recent banned book was a series of e-mail letters between a Chassidishe scholar and a Reform Rabbi. I can see the point of not wanting to equate the two but I'd still have liked to read the book and the dialogue. Rabbi Nosson Slifkin's books on Torah, creation, science and animals were also recently banned. I don't believe that Rabbi Slifkin wrote apikorsus (heresy). Perhaps the banners don't give us enough credit for intelligence and/or emunah.

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It would be easier to learn from a gadol and tzaddik who had to struggle to reach greatness.

It would also be a more fruitful endeavor.

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One recent banned book was a series of e-mail letters between a Chassidishe scholar and a Reform Rabbi. I can see the point of not wanting to equate the two but I'd still have liked to read the book and the dialogue.

My thinking on this is - those who would ban such a dialog are afraid that the reform rabbi might not be seen as a complete ignoramus devoid of Torah.

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Rabbi Nosson Slifkin's books on Torah, creation, science and animals were also recently banned.

I have one of those books - The Science Of Torah - good book.

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Perhaps the banners don't give us enough credit for intelligence and/or emunah.

Not only are laypeople sometimes given no credit for emunah or intelligence (by the banners), but such actions (as banning books) actually work against developing both emunah and critical thinking skills (as such skills also pertain to excellence in Torah study).

It does not appear to me that credit isn't given to laypeople's intelligence- rather, quite the contrary.

Erroneous intelligence.

No one would ban a book that is simply written by a complete ignoramus. However, the danger of a tome lies in the intelligence it is represented by, while presenting ideas contrary to Torah values.

If you take kosher food and cook it in a non-kosher vessel- it too becomes non-kosher.

If an intelligent person takes Torah ideas and perverts them in a unacceptable manner, infusing them with non-kosher ideas and presenting them in a book while still retaining the concept that it in some way is a study of Torah- that is when there is danger.


If books such as "Science of Torah" were banned- I am positive it is for a truely kosher reason.

Sam K, who banned the book in question?

From my understanding HaRav Elya Ber Vachfogel was one of the leading rabbonim in the ban against the book. I am not sure who else played key parts in the ban.

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Originally posted by Sam-:
Sam K, who banned the book in question?

I had heard it was some people from the Lakewood Yeshiva. I don't wish to cast aspersions against a major Torah institution which is responsible for so much Torah learning and advancing Torah knowledge so I'll leave it at some people. Some of these people also banned the book of e-mails between the Reform Rabbi and the Chassidishe Rav and urged people not to read "My Uncle the Netziv." This is kind of ironic because Lakewood sent me the book as a fund raiser than turned around and said: "Oops, don't read it."

ryeh Kaplan wrote a similar book (dont remeber the name) in the 70's or 80's phenomenal book!!!! B"H it wasnt banned

Sorry my previous post was incomplete...

My husband recently (BH) stopped going on some apikoirases web site where he first learned about Slifkins controversy.

I dont think it is heretical to view that we dont reallu know how long the first 3 days of creation were.

Its very upsetting that Rabbeim dont give us enough credit to justify Torah Judaism in our own hearts and minds in appropriate non heretical way, but nevertheless our own way. There are 70 approaches to the Torah, correct?

no person would find the controversy in these books, if people didnt state that they are controvercial. And as I wrote earlier, R'Kaplan wrote a similar books, but apparantly for that generation it was OK - I think we deserve more credit.

Thanks....

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no person would find the controversy in these books

For me the attraction to books is not necessarily that they are controversial... but I am not free from rebelliousness either...

Here's a small discrepency between two prominent books by respective geniuses which in a way discuss their calculations, from authentic sources, of the time measure of the first 6 days of Creation:

Dr. Schroweder, Toward the very end of this article:

Aish.com - Age of Universe

Dr. Schroweder gives us a number 15 2/3 Billion years of age through his calculation of diminishing number of seconds per day.


Yet...

Rav Aryeh Kaplan zt"l in his commentary to Sefer Yetzira (page 186 of my edition) based on derivation of the definition of a Divine Year (based on Midrashic definition of a Divine Day) derives an age of the universe closer to 15 1/3 Billion years of age.

{ a billion here, a billion there, soon we're talking big ages }

Seeing two Torah geniuses come up with calculations they each say are close with the 15 Billion years of age that science in their respective eras claim to tbe the measured age is nice.

However seeing such precision in their calculations yet a difference of a half billion years, each supported by authentic Torah tradition, gives me some concern.

...

For all I know, I have probably misunderstood Sefer Yetzira. Perhaps it was a year ago nearly to the day when I finished reading it enough to actually try to make my first golem, but I was only able to make a snowman

Rob, was your snowman able to walk? Or it just had a melt down?

Your "first" golem aye? and how many have you been succesful to make?

...Chanukah is coming up... can I have one?

I thought this thread was about the making of a Gadol not making of a Golem. Although....the idea of making a Gadol Golem is an appealing one. Isn't that what the big movie King Kong is all about?

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how many have you been succesful to make?

probably about negative 120 ;-(

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Originally posted by rob:

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how many have you been succesful to make?

probably about negative 120 ;-(

negative 120? that is a huge number, are you planning on selling any of them? perhaps you going to have them patented as the "negative golem" or something of that "nature"?

I don’t understand the whole question on the ban. So what if they had human tendencies, but there is no reason that if any of this happen that you need to plaster it around town. Isn’t it Lashon Harah to say this apon anyone, and Kol Shechain Gedolim? I’m human too and I had mistakes and embarrassing things happened to me, and I would be aghast if any of it got published. So I don’t see why it’s not a good thing to stand up for the honor of Gedolim. Would you like your laundry hung up in front of everyone.

About the Rabbi Reinman debate, the problem was that it gave credibility to the reform movement. This point was conceded by Rabbi Reinman that it was what happened. The reading of the arguments are way above the level of learning of the average reform person (it was even above the reform’s rabbi.) They didn’t see who’s arguments are better. All that came out was that the Orthodox was conceding that the Reform is an authentic branch that they deal and debate with. That’s why you need a big denouncement of the book, in order to deny such authentication of the reform.