where does the term "frum" originate from?
And how did the Modern Orthodox Movement start?
Just wondering

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Menachem,

frumm german for devout, pious

With the expulsion from Spain, Judiasm enter a non-rational kabballah dominated era. After the massive defections, especially in Germany in the early 1800's, rationalism as epitomized by the Rambam was revitalized, particularly by R. Samson Rapahel Hirsh in the mid 1800. Today we can characterized orthodoxy as Torah uMadah, Torah and Science, western culture has something to contribute to Judiasm and what can be made kodesh (holy) in western culture should be done; Torah with derech eretz, we are not interested in western culture but are prepared to learn the technical material necessary for making a living and being responsible citizens, and a third group which sees nothing of value in western culture, sees it as a danger and doesn't want anything to do with it.

Aryeh Shore

Thanks - my friend told me shadchanim made it up - how do you know all these things?

quote:

Originally posted by Menachem:
Thanks - my friend told me shadchanim made it up - how do you know all these things?

No, the shadchanim did not make it up. The word "Frum" comes from Yiddish, which is a wonderful mixture of German and Hebrew languages interspersed and interlocked so tightly that a Yiddish speaker can understand a German speaker. The rest - as Laurence described.

new terms for Shadchanin

the term frum from birth FFB is a new phrase as well as modern Cheredi which is a also a new term which is even used by pollsters.
(you can look up frumm in any german dictionary)

The question is what is modern Cheredi (Cheredi moderni)?


Aryeh Shore

quote:

Originally posted by Menachem:
Thanks - my friend told me shadchanim made it up - how do you know all these things?

Shadchanim make up a lot of things, and one cannot trust what the shadchan says solely on the shadchan's say-so. One needs to be careful and research properly what a shadchan says etc. (I just had to respond to the above quote with this, as this is an important topic too)

quote:

where does the term "frum" originate from?
And how did the Modern Orthodox Movement start?
Just wondering

Modern Orthodoxy traces its roots to the works of Rabbis Samson Raphael Hirsch (1808-1888) and Azriel Hildesheimer (1820-1899).

Rabbi Hirsch’s Torah im Derech Eretz (תורה עם דרך ארץ – “Torah with the way of the Land”) is a philosophy of Orthodox Judaism which formalises a relationship between halakhically observant Judaism and the modern world. Hirsch held that one should accept the integration of halakhic Judaism with secular education and culture not only as necessary, but as positive. "Judaism is not a mere adjunct to life: it comprises all of life... in the synagogue and the kitchen, in the field and the warehouse, in the office and the pulpit... with the pen and the chisel"

R. Hirsch's vision, although not unqualified, extended to the sciences as well as to (German) literature, philosophy and culture. Torah im Derech Eretz remains influential to this day in all branches of Orthodox Judaism.

Rabbi Hildesheimer, often described as "the pragmatist rather than the philosopher", undertook a variety of actions which position him as a modernizer of Orthodox Judaism, and which have become institutionalized in Modern Orthodoxy. He established Jewish education for males and females, which included both religious and secular studies. His was the first Orthodox rabbinical seminary in Germany to incorporate modern Jewish studies, secular studies and academic scholarship in its curriculum. Not being a sectarian, Hildesheimer worked with communal leaders, even non-Orthodox ones, on issues that affected the community, such as anti-Semitism and ritual slaughter. He also maintained traditional Jewish attachments to the Land of Israel and worked with the non-Orthodox on its behalf.

Torah Umadda (תורה ומדע - "Torah and secular knowledge") is a paradigm closely related to Hirsch's "Torah im Derech Eretz". Torah Umadda entails a philosophy concerning the interelationship between the secular world and Judaism, and in particular between secular knowledge and Jewish knowledge. Torah Umadda is greatly influenced by the teachings and philosphy of Joseph Soloveitchik (1903-1993), Rosh Yeshiva at Yeshiva University. In Rav. Soloveitchik's thought, Judaism, which believes that the world is "very good", enjoins man to engage in tikkun olam. "Halakhic Man" must therefore attempt to bring the sanctity and purity of the transcendent realm into the material world.

Although there is some question as how precisely to define the distinction between Modern Orthodoxy and Haredi Judaism, there is basic agreement that they may be distinguished on the basis of three major characteristics:

1. Modern Orthodoxy adopts a relatively inclusive attitude stance towards society in general, and the larger Jewish community in particular.

2. Modern Orthodoxy is, in comparison, accommodating, “if not welcoming” to modernity, general scholarship and science.

3. Modern Orthodoxy is receptive toward Israel and Zionism, viewing the State of Israel (as opposed to the Land of Israel) as having inherent Jewish significance.

The two movements also differ in their approach to Halakha as regards strictures (chumras) and leniencies (kulas); this, however, represents a specific difference in application as opposed to a general difference in ideology. Both Modern Orthodoxy and Ultra Orthodoxy regard Halakha as Divine in origin, and as such, no position is assumed without justification in the Shulkhan Arukh or in the Acharonim. In the Modern Orthodox view, however, "severity and leniency are relevant only in circumstances of factual doubt, not in situations of debate or varied practice. In the latter situations, the conclusion should be based solely on the legal analysis". In the Haredi view, on the other hand, "the most severe position... is the most likely basis for unity and commonality of practice within the Orthodox community and is therefore to be preferred". Further, "such severity... results in the greatest certainty that God's will is being performed."


http://www.edah.org/backend/coldfusion/search/diverse.cfm#Chumrah

The fact that the word "frum" is in a German dictionary does not mean that it is of German origin. The idea that all words shared in common between Yiddish and German ignores the long and compicated history of the Jewish-European diaspora. Jews were not late on the scene interlopers in the geographic region that became Germany. In fact Jewish merchants arrived during the Roman Empire, which preceeded the Visigoths and Vandals coming from the north and while the Roman Empire forced south into what became Italy some of the Jewish merchants stayed behind. Sorry for the lack of brevity. However, my point is the word "frum" is a yiddish word that also exsists in German but the long complicated nature of the diaspora does not lend itself to the theory that this intrinsicaly makes the word a German word that became Yiddish.

MK, that's true; however, in Hebrew the letter "Peh/Feh" in the beginning of the word is always "Peh" (with the dot inside); so it seems safe to assume that most Yiddish words that start with a "F" did not originate in the language of the Jews who lived in the area.

Alex
I asked that question in a shiur once. The cryptic reply was go tell that to a mentsch named "fisher". Change the f to a p and you have an unpleasantness for a sir name.
Although you are correct about the usual use of peh at the beginning of a word there are exceoptions, and there may have been more. My point was more general. We see how much yiddish has leaked into american english in 200 years and yet most people (especially yidden) cannot believe that the language and culture of the Jews effected the people of Euorope in a similar manner of several thousand years. It is counterintuitive and simply a product of a lack of pride.