quote:

Originally posted by Rav Chaim:
Of course that Farhesiah is 10 Jews. That is brought in the Gemarah in Sanhedrin I brought down. The NAfka Minah for that I already wrote, or if he's considerd a Mumar.What I can't figure out why it would be a D'rabanan only.

I never said that there is no cases of Ayvah, I just said that there is no mITZVAS ASay to save a life. If there is Ayvah, then you can save yourself even in front of a million Jews.

I also can't understand why losing half your money is a right to be Michalel Shabbos? don't you need to give up all your money not to be Oiver a LAv?

i once heard in a vort from harav moshe heineman (baltimore) that if you have a goy employer that pays you for xmas you should not keep the money, if you work and get overtime on xmas you should divest yourself of the overtime.

Shalom Pollack,
I'm not clear about your comment. The very first procedure I performed in Israel was an appendicitis on an Arab/Palestinian boy. I was surprised as to how many of our enemies we treat and whose lives we save in our hospitals and sometimes at the expense of Jews. That's a different matter.
I really was not clear about what you are saying concerning Batisrael. For me, the bottom line is that she needs a qualified posek.

every torah observant jew working in medicine / health-care needs a posek to ask shailos, and to learn when to ask shailos; most people don't ask enough.
the day to day challanges of a frum jew working in a medical environment are daunting.
the schus from thsis avodah should never be dimishished by shailos, and if they are asked and answered they won't be. in my 10 years working in hospitals i lost track of how many conversations were ended with "i discussed this with my rov, if you want clarication you should go ask him". since i carefully chose an older charedie (in my case a satmarish chasidish) rov with unquestionable status in the community, and he agreed that i could use his name as long as i followed the pasak exactly as given and explained to questioners the same way the burden of the shailo was removed from me and placed on him. and he was capable, and eager, to answer anyone that came to him; which they did.

quote:

I was surprised as to how many of our enemies we treat and whose lives we save in our hospitals and sometimes at the expense of Jews.

In "They Must Go" by Rabbi Meir Kahane zt"l he describes a scene in I believe 1929 Hevron in which a Jewish doctor and his family were brutally massacred by a group of Arabs including one person in particular who had been treated by this doctor earlier that same day.

quote:

Originally posted by MK Fink:
i once heard in a vort from harav moshe heineman (baltimore) that if you have a goy employer that pays you for xmas you should not keep the money, if you work and get overtime on xmas you should divest yourself of the overtime.

Why should one not keep the money for working on that day? And what if one works on that for a Jewish employer?

if you have a jewish employer that pays you as if it were a regular day and you work as such it is not an issue. if you work for a large company that pays everybody to stay home, presumably to celebrate that day, then the money is questionable. if you get paid overtime for a regular day (which is common in hospitals) then there is a question about keeping the money.

i worked for several hospitals at the same time in the us a few years ago.
the jewish hospital allowed all employees to pick which holidays they wanted to observe. of course i choose the appropriate chagim. sadly the most common holdiay of oberservance amongst all employees was super-bowl sunday. halavai.
the non-jewish hospital had a set calender. they gave me the jewish holidays off. but i still got paid 2 and 1/2 times my regular pay for x-mas, new-years-day and several other non-jewish holidays.
the shaila that rav heineman was answering was if that money should be kept. he stated that you keep your base pay. and divest the remainder to tzedukah and it does not count towards masser.

when a doctor is permitted to do things on Shabbos not normally done in order to save a life, are they also permitted to keep the salary / fees earned so doing?

it may depend on if they are a member of a group practice (with non-jewish members).
are they a partner? (paid a percentage of what they bring in)
are they an employee?
are they paid annualy?
are they paid per shift wored?
are they paid by the procedure?

as i stated in an earlier posting every medical professional must have a personal posek that is qualified and recognized by the community in order to follow halacha and survive the scrutiny of people that don't have to make these decistions.

Rob;
MK Fink;
You are correct. Each situation needs its own posek. I can tell you how I have gotten around Shabbat pay. I just don't get paid for my work on Shabbat. However, this is a virtual day, salary wise. The money I would have been paid on Shabbat is spread through the other 6 days so I don't really lose any salary although I'm not getting paid on Shabbat. It's kind of...hide and seek...unfortunately.

mishna breura 245, 246 gives good examples of how this works. having a rov give a heter based on this allows us to enjoy the schus of our work. moshe feinstein has a sefer that makes the connection if sombody, or their rov need it spelled out more clearly.

batisrael, are you in or near glasgow? My brother is a Rabbi in Glasgow, and I could put you in touch with him if you would like. You can email me - gila at globalyeshiva dot com.

"What I can't figure out why it would be a D'rabanan only."

Rav Chaim,

Allow me an analogy paralleling |yom tov sheni shel galuyot|. Chief Rabbi Kook held "|miytkavniym lahzor|" should, whether |benei hul ba-aretz| or |benei ha-aretz ba-hul|, follow their temporary place. (Popular knowledge ignores this.)
|Orah Mishpat| (|Orah Hayyim| 130) discusses why the latter, stringent cases with |melakha|, also stay obligated |mitzvat tefilliyn| privately.
Other problems might arise were authorities to permit |benei ha-aretz ba-hul| Israel's |minhagiym|: weekday prayers cause problems; |kiddush| would be lost, etc. Diversion from |minhag ha-makom| (even |be-tzinah|) gets no sanction-- except regarding |tefilliyn|. Any distinction?
We here risk negating positive biblical commandment; its private practice is, even abiding by those (like Rabbenu Asher?) ordering |yom tov sheni| adherence, firmly suggested. And public observance-- if it's not |yom tov| for these people?
Answer: such represents, where given community accustoms contrarily, |iysur de-orayta|; secret transgression won't! So donning phylacteries solitarily, one Scriptural junction, remains valid!

|Le-may nafka mina|?
BatYisrael complains of lacking fellow Jews nearby; |Melameyd Le-Hoiyl| says violations before non-believers aren't considered |be-farhesiya|. You ask how these turn |de-rabanan|. Ponder |tefiyllin| for |benei-ha-aretz ba-hul| on second-day holiday!
Our understanding about only open desecration posing problems |min ha-Torah| finds support.
BatYisrael's additional |safeyk| becomes, complementing |pikuah nefesh| issues as well as training just comprising |refuah|'s alternative, substantial-- while she stays there. Hence my advice: don't switch.
Your questions constitute a |kavod|.

Shalom Pollack

quote:

Originally posted by MK Fink:
if you have a jewish employer that pays you as if it were a regular day and you work as such it is not an issue. if you work for a large company that pays everybody to stay home, presumably to celebrate that day, then the money is questionable. if you get paid overtime for a regular day (which is common in hospitals) then there is a question about keeping the money.

You still haven't say what the problem is, all you said is that "there is a question about keeping the money". Is the money impure?

quote:

Originally posted by MK Fink:
i worked for several hospitals at the same time in the us a few years ago.
the jewish hospital allowed all employees to pick which holidays they wanted to observe. of course i choose the appropriate chagim. sadly the most common holdiay of oberservance amongst all employees was super-bowl sunday. halavai.
the non-jewish hospital had a set calender. they gave me the jewish holidays off. but i still got paid 2 and 1/2 times my regular pay for x-mas, new-years-day and several other non-jewish holidays.
the shaila that rav heineman was answering was if that money should be kept. he stated that you keep your base pay. and divest the remainder to tzedukah and it does not count towards masser.

If there is a problem with the money - why give it to tzedakah? I'm simply not following or just missing some info here.

Quote "mishna breura 245, 246 gives good examples of how this works. having a rov give a heter based on this allows us to enjoy the schus of our work"

I think you mean 306, 307, about Shcar Shabbos (receiving money for something done on Shabbos.

Quote "moshe feinstein has a sefer that makes the connection if sombody,"

First of all, you shouldn’t be calling him by the first name. In YD 242:15 says you shouldn’t call you rebbe by his name. The great rabbis of the generation have a Din as your main rebbe, as said in that Siman.

Secondly, he says that by a Shabbos next to Yom Tov, since there is a full day of Shabbos\Yom Tov (that you can’t say the half of the English day is mixed with Erev Shabbos or Moitzie Shabbos.) The interest from the bank is Shcar Shabbos, so you shouldn’t benefit from it, so you give it away in a way that you won’t benefit from Shabbos.



What I don’t understand is how R’ Heinemen prohibits in this case. The reason you get paid more is not because it’s Xmas. It’s because there are not enough workers who are willing to work on that day. So the extras is regular supply and demand, and the regular pay for a time when there is a shortage of workers available.

Quote "Answer: such represents, where given community accustoms contrarily, |iysur de-orayta|; secret transgression won't! So donning phylacteries solitarily, one Scriptural junction, remains valid!"

Wearing Tefilin on Yom Tov is not a Milacha. Many Shitos held that one can wear it on Shabbos as long as you don’t go outside (maybe you’ll need to use the facilities and you’ll take it off and carry 4 Amos in the public domain)

Even the Bais yosef, who from the newly discovered Zohar, which was very strong about not wearing tefilin (because it’s a slight to Shabbos, since your making it look like weekday) would not claim it to be a Melacha D’Oraisah.

Everyone holds, that if you find Tefilin abandon in the street, you don it to bring it to safety (as per the Mishna in the beginning of the tenth Perek of Eiruvin.

Conclusion: We still don’t see anybody who allows a Melacha of Shabbos to be done from the Torah in private.

quote:

Everyone holds, that if you find Tefilin abandon in the street, you don it to bring it to safety (as per the Mishna in the beginning of the tenth Perek of Eiruvin.

In such a case, are they worn with their covers of whatever type?

Or are the covers left where the tefillin were found abandoned?

1. Poskim in Israel (Rav Kook, Eretz Chemdah) today say do only one day regardless of where you are going or coming. The talmud and rishonim are clear that no one ever did two days in Israel and it is a chumrah from after the time of shulchan aruch and violates the principal of separating oneself from the tzibur. On the other hand, the eretz chemdah rabbanim suggest that the Shaliach should pray with the congregation in Chutz l'eretz.
2. I gather the reason one would give the extra shabbat pay to tzidakkah would be like any work done intentionally, you can't benefit but others can, e.g. food cooked on shabbat.
3. As for moving tefillin on shabbat in the public domain, there are other opinions in the gemara.

Aryeh Shore

quote:

Originally posted by Sam-:
You still haven't say what the problem is, all you said is that "there is a question about keeping the money". Is the money impure?

i believe the issue was regarding the appearance of celebrating a non-jewish holiday, or possibly benefiting from such a holiday and therefore looking forward to the holiday which may be celebrating or at least having simcha, which would not be a good thing.