I know that the Torah commands against male sterilization. But what about female sterilization? It doesn't seem right to go against nature and do it. And I think that it is better for a man spiritually, not to have relations with a woman who is sterilized. But then again, sometimes I read proverbs 31:17 "With strength she girds her loins.". And sterilization always comes to mind. I think any man in his right mind would not have relations with a woman who is sterilized. And any woman in her right mind would not want to impose that on a man.

Sterilization was done to me against my will and without my legal consent.


If there is a commandment to be fruitful and multiply, then it seems wrong to sterilize women. But if a woman would have problems bearing or raising a child would that make it alright? I don't think it does. Are there not enough people in this world to help raise children? This also raises the question that if a woman is not able to safely carry and deliver a pregnancy, should surrogate mothers be allowed? Surrogate mothers seem to be the most extreme cases of slavery.

If I were rich I could have an operation to reverse the sterilization, but I would also have to be a worthy enough candidate for them to do it, and I am sure I don't fit the profile. I would not care so much that it would give me the ability to have children as much as it would be doing Teshuva. I really don't want to die this way.


Does the commandment to be fruitful and multiply supercede over the commandment not to spill seed, that is artificial insemination, which many sterilized women rely on. I heard too that that is wrong, but I think that the commandment to be fruitful and multiply is the greater commandment.

I have thought about this long and hard for many years and I think if given a choice I would rather have an abortion than be sterilized.

An abortion is a sin that you live with temporarily, but sterilization is a sin you "live" with for the rest of your life.

It is putting the life of the mother into account, and esteeming it above the life of a fetus.

I am old now and there is really noone for me so it really shouldn't matter. But somehow it still does. I think it is genocide.

quote:

Originally posted by Raybin:
Sterilization was done to me against my will and without my legal consent.

quote:

If I were rich I could have an operation to reverse the sterilization, but I would also have to be a worthy enough candidate for them to do it, and I am sure I don't fit the profile. I would not care so much that it would give me the ability to have children as much as it would be doing Teshuva. I really don't want to die this way.

I really don't think you have anything to Teshuva for, as far as this issue is concerned. If it was done against you will and without your consent, then you have not committed any Aveira [transgression] whatsoever.

I haven't dealt with any of the other points in your post, but I wanted to put your mind at rest about what most concerns you.

I haven't dealt with any of the other points in your post, but I wanted to put your mind at rest about what most concerns you.[/QUOTE]

Thank you, but my mind will never be at rest concerning this. Is there such a thing as the world having to do teshuva, if so, then that is more what I meant.

When I was in labor with my son it was very painful because he held his head sideways, and I told my husband no more children. Then, my son held his head sideways so he wouldn't be born the right way, since there was a true knot in his cord and if he had been delivered the right way we would have lost him. Smart kid, he knew the right way for him to be born. So I had a C-section and my husband, who had been in medical school at one time, attended the surgery.

The Doctors and nurses were really mad at me and harassed me because I had no consents for tying my tubes. (I really did not want it to be done). I felt intimidated by all of the harrassment that I did not speak up and tell them not to do it, and my husband did not speak up. Later, when I asked my husband if they did it he said that they had. Also, after several bouts of mental illness I felt really guilty and thought that the only way to find out for sure was to go in for the surgery, and I thought that there would never be a right man for me anyway so oh well if my tubes weren't tied already and they tied them. But I did not give my written legal consent to the surgery in the paperwork. They did it anyway and I think that they had found that my tubes were tied already since the doctor said she enjoyed it, I assumed she enjoyed finding that it had already been done. I doubt if they would have admitted it if they were tied already. But really, I will never know for sure.

So you see, I am partly to blame and should do Teshuva. Teshuva in my mind concerning this is putting things back together again the way that HaShem intended it to be, thus bringing one closer to G-d. S.O.S. 4:12

Raybin, I think you shouldn't blame yourself. What a woman says when in labor is irrelevant to what she thinks and how she feels at normal times. They had no right to tie your tubes, unless it was a medical emergency calling for the procedure. You did not ask for it; how can you blame yourself for what they did to you?

Maybe you could sue the hospital and then have them reverse the procedure, but I am not a lawyer.

Maybe you could sue the hospital and then have them reverse the procedure, but I am not a lawyer.[/QUOTE]

I did try suing them, but I was so out of it I did not seek legal help from a lawyer because I thought I could not afford it. I filed my own lawsuit against them and they were a big HMO. I filed that they had tied my tubes against my will and also that the paperwork wasn't legal. But there was a three year statute of limitations and I had filed like three and a half or four years after the illegal paperwork was done.

I got nowhere in the legal system. Their lawyers kept sending me mounds and mounds of paperwork that I could never make heads or tails of, except that they used it to intimidate me.

Then they called me after I had just had a nervous breakdown and had done some jail time for something I was accused of but didn't do. So my self esteem was really low and I felt foolish that I had filed it in the first place, so I signed their papers agreeing that the case was closed and I could never sue them about it in the courtsystem again. But I still do have a legitimate case against them. But the only thing that I could prove was that the paperwork was done without my legal consent, the other thing happened in a different county and required a different suit, which would have been near impossible for me to file on my own since it was a big city and I had no clue what to do. As it was, I had to ask alot of questions to do the paperwork to file the case, and what I said in it was the bare minimum, since I was not a skilled writer. It wasn't even typed.

There was one court hearing about this and apperently it had generated alot of interest because the courtroom was Jam packed. But it was very brief and none of the real issues were addressed.

Raybin,
Get yourself a good "Jewish laywer". Even if the statute of limitations has passed, if you can demonstrate that you were having mental health issues during the 4 year interim and you weren't in a mental position to do anything about it at that time, the court and jury will listen to you and decide in your favor.

quote:

so I signed their papers agreeing that the case was closed and I could never sue them about it in the courtsystem again.

Was this a bidirectional settlement of some sort where they offered to give you something, such as money, in return for your signing this agreement?

Thank you for the encouragement! Obviously, you have more faith in our legal system than I do. I am not sure of my mental status in those four years, but I am sure of when the illegal paperwork was done it was only one month after I had had a nervous breakdown, and the doctor knowing that I was on lithium didn't even consider my mental health history, I was delusional and I know I could prove that. And when I signed to close the case was only a couple of months after I had one and I was delusional and still needed to be stabilized.


Also, there is a bias against the mentally ill in our society that would make it difficult to win the case. And the psychiatrists would say that when I am delusional that my tubes being tied becomes important to me, so I can never speak up to them anymore if I want a clean bill of mental health. (over the years I have learned what not to say). So I couldn't even get a psychiatrist to testify in my favor because they are all bias against the mentally ill.

Besides the fact that I don't live there anymore so I can't file again. Or afford a lawyer. Nice thought, but I seriously doubt it.

Now as things stand, Only HaShem can, does and will judge this case.

Was this a bidirectional settlement of some sort where they offered to give you something, such as money, in return for your signing this agreement?[/QUOTE]


No, nothing was offered and I recieved no money. Perhaps that would be to my benefit if I ever tried to open the case again?

one

Raybin,

If your tubes were simply "tied" they can be reversed. If they were severed they could also be repaired, in some cases. There are several ways to approach this and, depending on what they did to you, it could be reversed.
Avi

quote:

Perhaps that would be to my benefit if I ever tried to open the case again?

Yes, I have a suspicion that this would be the case.

For example, in a car accident or other insurance settlement case, I think it would be extremely difficult to re-open any matter.

But where the other reasons have been posted here for why the matter should be opened, this one reason to not re-open if there had been a settlement, would be absent. So maybe you have a shot.