I was told that the Sages teach that Adam had the entire Torah.
I was told that the Sages teach that G-d created only one pair of humans.
I have also been told that the Sages teach that Kayin and Hevel married their twin sisters.

These three statements present me with a problem of logical contradictions.

Torah teaches that marrying one's sister is prohibited. Vayikra 22
For this to not end in the unthinkable that G-d set Kayin and Hevel up to violate Torah, and thereby Himself violating Toarh, one of the above statements would have to be false. And according to the text Rabbi Mitterhoff provided, Honor to Torah Sages the Sages cannot be wrong.

I would like to know how the Sages resolved this problem?

I asked this question in a Forum on another site - and was basically told not to ask questions Rashi wouldn't bother to ask - well, with all due respect, maybe he didn't think of it. Doesn't mean it's not a valid question.

Dov

shalom Dov,
What is the logical contradiction do you have with the concept of the sages saying that HaShem taught Adam the torah.

as well that G-d created first Adam and Eve

to your last statement and question I have not heard an explaination to. what I have heard is the Bni Noach have only to fulfill seven mitzvot (commandment) in which the laws we have of marriage Israel recieve at Sinai.

The prohibtion against marrying (say) a sister did not apply until the Torah was given at Mount Sinai.

If you look in Sanhedrin 58, the Gemarah goes through the whole Sugya. There is a Man Damar that permits a sister to a Ben Noach from here. Those who prohibit say that Hashem made this the exception, in order to keep the world going, as it says Olam Chesed Yibaneh . This is also brought in Rashi in Vayikra 20:17 to explain “Chesed hu” that you shouldn’t ask on Kayin, since it’s a Chesed that Hashem made him an exception to build the world from him, as it says “ Olam Chesed Yibaneh “

I would also like to address another note that seems to be a theme in your postings. There is no problem to ask questions on Rashi or the Gemarah. But, before we think we outsmarted them, we must take into account the limitations that we have. Take for instance this question. It didn’t take much for someone who has a decent grasp of Shas to answer. We must realize our limitations of how much Torah we know, and for the most of the time, the lack of answer is the lack of knowledge that we have. With greater knowledge of Shas and Poskim, you get a deeper appreciation of the scholars that lived before us (without too much study in Shas and Poskim, there is not much too appreciate, so we see everybody as “equals.” Even myself, who spent over twenty years studying in Yeshiva and Kollel, understands my limitations with Rabbis above my level (that know more and can analyze better) and the Rabbis that they themselves revere. It’s sort of humbling, but that’s the way it is. So it sure pays to give the bigger scholar the benefit of the doubt, and say that you’re the one that is making a mistake, not the scholar. Thatway, it opens your mind to push yourself to understand what he meant, which will help you with your own growth in learning.

Shalom Stephen!

quote:

The prohibtion against marrying (say) a sister did not apply until the Torah was given at Mount Sinai.

Thank you, that solves it for me. Then I have no problem with what I have been told:-)

Dov

quote:

If you look in Sanhedrin 58, the Gemarah goes through the whole Sugya. There is a Man Damar that permits a sister to a Ben Noach from here. Those who prohibit say that Hashem made this the exception, in order to keep the world going, as it says Olam Chesed Yibaneh . This is also brought in Rashi in Vayikra 20:17 to explain “Chesed hu” that you shouldn’t ask on Kayin, since it’s a Chesed that Hashem made him an exception to build the world from him, as it says “ Olam Chesed Yibaneh “

Thank you, Rav Chaim - now that was a piece to the puzzle I didn't have

Isn't asking questions about that which one doesn't understand or doesn't know from those who have the knowledge the only way one with little knowledge can increase his/her knowledge?

If I couldn't ask questions because it might be seen as disrespecting the Sages or believing myself on par with them, then how would I ever come to know anything?

Didn't Rabbi Hillel grant an answer to the man who asked to be taught the law while standing on one leg?

The only way I know of to learn and increase my knowledge is to ask questions - if there is another, please teach me.

Dov

Dear Dov,
I didn’t mean to criticize you at all, Chas V’shalom. I’m very fond of your posts, and you seem to be a very honest learner. Nor to suppress questions. Questions are very good. The whole Talmud is full of them. So is Tosfos, which relentlessly asks questions (and gives answers.) We should always analyze Torah until we come to the purest understanding of it. That’s why we must always ask in order to be able to find answers, which clears up the subject the best. It’s a whole different Talmud learnt before Tosfos than after Tosfos.

My point is, that there is a difference between asking a question to clarify a subject then to dismiss it. Not all (advanced )questions get answers right away. Sometimes it takes generation until someone comes out with an answer. It also can be that someone has a question, which was already was answered on the other side of the world, or in an obscured Sefer etc. which he doesn’t know exist. But those authors that remain with a question, doesn’t say it’s wrong (unless dealing with a colleague or student) but rather, that the matter needs further looking into. I.e. that I didn’t figure out the meaning, but the meaning is still out there, waiting for more effort to be put into studying it.

The dismissal way is what I take issue, and even without what Rabbi Mitterhoff wrote, we should be able to recognize in ourselves our limitations not to dismiss out of hand when we have the question. For example, when collage students rant and rage about how the older generation is doing everything wrong, and the world would be much better if they would listen to their protests and ideas. They don’t think for a moment that maybe the older generation knows more than they do or had more life experience. They have their ideas and that’s all, everybody is obligated to listen to them. To the rest of the world, they look like fools trying to push their radical ideas on people that know more than them.

I‘m not trying to compare you to them, Chas V’sholom, but I’m giving an example of this attitude of dismissal without checking their own limitations that it’s probably their lack of understanding rather than the scholars, and thus is our obligation to understand what the scholar meant. This way we’ll be able to train ourselves to think like the scholars do.

Thank you, Rav Chaim for your kindness and patience

quote:

I‘m not trying to compare you to them, Chas V’sholom, but I’m giving an example of this attitude of dismissal without checking their own limitations that it’s probably their lack of understanding rather than the scholars, and thus is our obligation to understand what the scholar meant. This way we’ll be able to train ourselves to think like the scholars do.

Sometimes ones limitations isn't so much an out-right dismissal as it is an unawareness that more information than one has is required to see where one err in thinking.

Thank you for gently pointing this out to me:-)
Dov

Shalom Rav Chaim,

quote:

Chas V’sholom

What does it mean?

Dov

"Heaven forbid" (not a literal translation, but that's the general meaning).