I would like to observe the mitzvah of Talit Katan, but don't know how to treat the tzitzit properly.

Do I tuck them in(to my pants) together with my shirt? If I don't, then what if I have to wear formal wear?

And if I don't tuck them in, then how exactly do I wear them visible when wearing something that is supposed to be tucked in(to my pants)?

In the laws tzitzis of Chapter 8:11 it states” Basically, the mitzvah of wearing a small tallis involves wearing it over one’s garments, so that one will see it continually and remember the mitzvos.

The Mishna Berura, which is the law for ashkenazi Jews, says there: This conforms with what is stated, “And you shall see it and you shall remember, etc.” Those people who place the tzitzis inside their trousers act improperly. It is not enough that they ignore the fact that it is stated, “And you shall see it and you shall remember, etc.”, but, in addition, they show contempt for the mitzvah of Ha-Sheym, may He be blessed. They will be accountable for this in the future. As for their argument that they go among gentiles, it would be sufficient if because of this they placed the tzitzis inside the corners of the tallis. If they would have received some gift from a king of flesh and blood on which the name of the king is engraved, how proudly would they adorn themselves with it in front of other people always. All the more so they should wish to adorn themselves with tzitzis, which alludes to the Name of the Supreme King of Kings, the Holy One, Blessed be He, as explained below in Sec. 24, Par. 5. A person who bears His Name on his person is greatly honored. The Sages, of blessed memory, said, “One who is careful about the mitzvah of tzitzis will be privileged to see the face of the Shechinah. It is implied by Scripture that the Jews who will remain at the time of the end of the exile will be remarkable for their fulfillment of this mitzvah, as we see from what is written, “Ten people, of every tongue of the nations, will come and take hold of the corner of a Jewish person, etc. The Sages, of blessed memory, said about this, “Whoever is careful about the mitzvah of tzitzis will have the privilege of being served by two thousand eight hundred slaves, etc.”

The way you tuck your shirt in is by holding the two tzitzis on one side and tuck around them then do the same thing on the other side.

Very interesting. You mean to say that the tzitzis would go on the outside of the shirt while in the pants? I've never thought about that before - that is a great idea.

No, the tzitzis would go on top of your t-shirt but under your shirt and you hold the two tzitzis on one side and tuck around them then do the same thing on the other side. This is the standard way most people wear tzitzis.

unless you are one of tens-of-thousands of Chasidishe Yidden then you where your Tzitzis over your shirt under your vest which is what we believe is the standard way that most people wear tzitzis.

While on the subject, I was wondering about techelet. I have 2 talit-katans with B'nei Brak dyed techelet I know others who are partial to Petiel Tekhelet. The majority seems to just wear white (which I do if i need to wear for a dirty job or something). Anyway, if anybody knows any history or background info, it would be appreciated.

there is a custom among some depending on where you are to put the tzitzit inside the pants however it is preferable that one has the fringes showing since this is the commandment as it is stated: "and you shall look upon them and remember all my mitzvot".

with that said if one must do a dirty job then one can simply tuck their tzitzit in. the issue of techelet is one which has never fully been resolve. as far as saying ahh we all now know what it is. so the majority of Israel wears just white for at least this why there is no question.

there are a few places which beleive they know the animal that makes the blueish dye. with that said one should before don the Tallis gadol or Tallis katan with the blue dye on it should try to know a little more about the place they got it from. and what sort of test they use to make sure it hold up to minumal standards to be Techelet.

Jacob
http://breslov.com/tekhelet/
gives an OK explanation of techeles.
But I would suggest discussing it with a Rav that is involved in such a thing. You should be able to find a few of the in Yerishalayim.
MK Fink

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rabbi Mitterhoff:
In the laws tzitzis of Chapter 8:11 it states” Basically, the mitzvah of wearing a small tallis involves wearing it over one’s garments, so that one will see it continually and remember the mitzvos.

The Mishna Berura, which is the law for ashkenazi Jews, says there: This conforms with what is stated, “And you shall see it and you shall remember, etc.” Those people who place the tzitzis inside their trousers act improperly. ...

This is true by Askenazi Jews. However, Rav Ovadya Yosef, Shlita paskins just the opposite by Sephardim that they should דוקא wear them in. I don't remember his ספרות why, nor have I been able to discover what he does with the pasuk quoted above "And you shall see...", but that is indeed his pasak. Perhaps one of our Sephardim brethren can shed some light here for us.

Yalkut Yosef 8:42 writes that the minhag of Sefardim is to wear even the strings of the tzitzis under ones clothes according to kabbalah and the Ari zal. He resolves the pasuk in 3 different ways: it refers to the talis gadol, it refers to the time when one dons the talis kattan but not the entire time it is being worn, there are rishonim (Ittur, Maharam MiRottenberg, etc) who learn the pasuk for a different derasha and not that one must see the tzitzis.

quote:

Originally posted by Peretz Moncharsh:
Yalkut Yosef 8:42 writes that the minhag of Sefardim is to wear even the strings of the tzitzis under ones clothes according to kabbalah and the Ari zal.

Thanks Peretz. You reminded me what troubled me then when I learnt that halacha. What is the kabbalistic reason for tucking them in?

Magedman

In general does a boy who wears only a Tallis Katan hold all the tzitzis in his hands when reciting the 3rd paragraph of Shema?

One boy I've seen davening sometimes wears his Tallis Katan over his shirt until after davening, and then tucks it through his shirt, leaving his tzitzis exposed outside his pants.

What other solutions are there?

quote:

Originally posted by rob:
In general does a boy who wears only a Tallis Katan hold all the tzitzis in his hands when reciting the 3rd paragraph of Shema?

Shouldn't one be holding the tzitzis for the entire Shema?

quote:

One boy I've seen davening sometimes wears his Tallis Katan over his shirt until after davening, and then tucks it through his shirt, leaving his tzitzis exposed outside his pants.

What other solutions are there?

What's the concern that a solution is being sought?

quote:

quote:
One boy I've seen davening sometimes wears his Tallis Katan over his shirt until after davening, and then tucks it through his shirt, leaving his tzitzis exposed outside his pants.

What other solutions are there?



What's the concern that a solution is being sought?

According to Artscroll instructions, one holds tzitzis in one hand during the first passuk and first 2 paragraphs, and then holds the tztizis with 2 hands for the 3rd paragraph discussing tzitzis, kissing them at the 3 mentions of tzitzis.

Shortly after, Artscroll instructions say to kiss and release the tzitzis.

Arguably what is Shema proper and what is extra prayers after Shema.

If the Tallis Katan tzitzis are tucked into pants, then they cannot even be held.

When not tucked, its pretty easy to hold the front 2 tzitzis for Boruch She'emar.

But to hold all 4 tzitzis for Shema, and to be able to hold them up to one's lips, I think that would be pretty difficult.

I'm not sure if its right to use the tzitzis of a tallis kattan for these actions, however if he cannot wear a regular tallis, and wants the connection to these mitzvos, I thought its pretty clever to wear the tallis kattan over the shirt, as some do, and then tuck it through his shirt collar afterward.

If the tallis katan is big enough it is possible to hold all 4 tzitzis at one time.

My Rosh Yeshiva (Rav Boruch Horowitz shlita) only ever held the front two tzitzis of his tallis gadol for the Shema.

quote:

only ever held the front two tzitzis

isn't part of the custom is to symbolize the "4 corners of the earth"?

I've seen some hold the 4 tzitzis starting from even earlier.

Perhaps for another discussion thread, I've never seen a very good explanation of the various customs for when one's head should be wrapped by a tallis.

And speaking of sitting or standing for shema, ashrei seems to have some ambiguity.

As far as the kedusha-like prayers one says without a minyan, I understand it is not proper to stand during their recitation, yet there are many who have do stand for an entire service due to no seats - what should they do?

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And speaking of sitting or standing for shema, ashrei seems to have some ambiguity.

I didn't know that it did. I can't think it matters whether you sit down or stand up for ashrei.

quote:

As far as the kedusha-like prayers one says without a minyan, I understand it is not proper to stand during their recitation, yet there are many who have do stand for an entire service due to no seats - what should they do?

I don't know what you mean by "kedusha-like prayers".

As far as I can see, if there is no minyan then you only need to stand for the Baruch SheAmar, Mizmor LeTodah, Yishtabach, the Amidah and Aleinu. Everything else can be said sitting down or standing up.

I think with regard to the Shema, the only thing is that you may not stand up/sit down in the middle of it. Start as you mean to go on.

quote:

I think with regard to the Shema, the only thing is that you may not stand up/sit down in the middle of it. Start as you mean to go

I think that in the middle there wouldn't be a problem. It's just by the beggining you shouldn't sit or stand special for it (besides sitting by day) so it shouldn't look like you're getting in a special position for it.

quote:

I don't know what you mean by "kedusha-like prayers".

The mention of the triple "kadosh" said by the angels which comes elsewhere in davening than just within the Kedusha of Shemonah Esrei is that to which I refered.