Has anyone here heard about Rav Kaduri's statements about the coming of Moshiach etc.?

Yes I have, but I always take statements attributed to him with a grain of salt because they are always second hand or third hand if not just folly by some wise guy.

I agree with MosheYisraeli, but one thing I will say (having seen the web site quoted in your Profile) is that it will not be the late Lubavitcher Rebbe zt"l (not Sh'lita as mentioned there).

About the Rebbe; don't forget some still believe he IS Sh'lita..... So for some of them, that designation is accurate. Don't shoot me for this one!

Yisroel, did Rav Kadouri say that or are you saying it?

Say what? That the Rebbe is not the Moshiach? That was me.

I'll be even blunter. I believe that such a belief is on a par with a similar belief 2,000 years ago about another Jewish man they thought (after his death) was the Moshiach.

Furthermore, I have read that some hold that people with this belief should be treated as "minim" and may not even make up a Minyan.

Yisroel,
I'm in agreement with you. I was just making the point that whoever wrote "Sh'lita" may not have made a mistake. He may have written so deliberately because I know a few Lubavitchers who would say he IS Sh'lita.

MosheYisraeli,
Don't worry, I understood your point exactly.

quote:

Furthermore, I have read that some hold that people with this belief should be treated as "minim" and may not even make up a Minyan.

Out of interest who holds this?

Sorry, I cannot recall right now.

Gila,
In any event, the imitation of the traditions and beliefs of the Goyim, especially avoda zara, is prohibited. Even if they are remotely construed to be similar.

MosheYisraeli,
To me it is not so much avoda zara [idol worship] but a form of Xianity which derives its name from the Greek word for Moshiach.

B"H

If I might say somewhat about this subject. I have heard that the Lubavitchers are divided about the status of their Rebbe. Some hold him as their Messiah, while others do not.
Let us not forget that Rabbi Akiva once thought that Shimon ben Cochba was the Messiah. Are we permitted to be mistaken?

I am not a "Chabadnik," but my nine year old daughter studies at a Chabad school for girls.

Sincerely,
David

David,
I agree with you. In fact, my local Rav is Lubavitcher so I don't have anything against them. I just mentioned that SOME Lubavitchers believe in such ways.

Yisroel,
Christianity (Roman Catholic)is fundamentally avoda zara. The Evangelical Christians have departed from it for that very reason. The Christian Reformation did make strides away from that, however, today it is difficult to distinguish which Christian groups are in avoda zara and which ones are not. One would have to understand their theological stance to appreciate this.

quote:

Let us not forget that Rabbi Akiva once thought that Shimon ben Cochba was the Messiah.

After his death?

B"H

Yisroel,

No, it was during Bar-Cochba's lifetime. The Rabbis were furiated at Rabbi Akiva, and they said to him: "Akiva! Weeds will grow-up in your cheek-bone, and the son of David still would not have come!"

But I think it makes little difference how men are misled. If they think of a man as the Messiah during his lifetime, or after his lifetime, it boils down to the same erroneous belief - unless of course that man does what the Messiah is supposed to do.

David

B"H
CORRECTION: I should have rather written "infuriated."

David,
The problem here is not whether anyone believes someone is Moshiach. It's not a crime to believe that someone is. However, it is a crime to venerate a human being. The Christian construct of Moshiach is very different from the Jewish one. In Judaism we do not venerate Moshiach as a deity. Christiains do. And some Lubavitchers seem to do just that.

This was never the issue with Rav Akiva nor Bar Kochva. Whether Yeshka was/is Moshiach or not was never an issue with Christianity, from the Jewish paradigm. The issue is whether he is a deity. No one in orthodox Jewish history has ever claimed Moshiach (however conceived) to be a deity!!!

I think there is no comparison between Rabbi Akiva and what's going on now. First, if Rabbi Akiva, who was the greatest Talmid Chachum of his time, and maybe of all times, felt he was able to pick who fits into Moshiach, doesn't mean that any Tom, Dick and Harry should start having an opinion who's Moshiach. The very fact that R' Akiva erred should tell us, not that we have the right to err, but rather how careful we should be not to try to pick somebody for Moshiach. If R' Akiva didn't get it right, we of course won't be even close.

Besides that, I think there is a fundamental difference between why Rabbi Akiva thought Bar Cochba to be Moshiach then what the Lubavitchers think the Rebbes Moshiach. R' Akiva's opinion was based on all the Mesorah and he felt BK had all the signs according to his wide knowledge. The Lubabs whole reason to appoint the Rebbe as Moshiach is to aggrandize the Rebbe and Lubavitchism. If you ever listen to the far fetched "proofs" that the Rebbe is Moshiach is that he was responsible for the fall of the iron curtain (yeah right) and he prophesied this. These are people who are desperate to believe that the Rebbes Moshiach.

Whether there is a explicit Lav to believe that someone Moshiach or not is moot. The inherit problems that are involved with it is apparent. You see that it leads people to Avodah Zara Mamish (or Shituf) and besides, it's running after Sheker. All false Moshiachs in history always ended with tragedy to the Jews. Even the non Elohistik have weird SHitos, and are very cultist. It's to a point that their Lubavitchism is more important than their Judaism. Thus they shut out the rest of Klal Yisrael as "non believers." I was sitting on a plane next to a Lubavitch Bachor (about 8 years ago) who was Davening with a picture of the Rebbe in front of him. This was from a group of Lubabs that was considered moderate in regards to believing him being Moshiach.