I was wondering why one can only be Jewish by their mother. I am Jewish by my mother, but technically both my brohter's children aren't Jewish as his wife is arabic. Suddenly it would seem these nephews of mine have become proud of their Jewish ancestry when I started playing Klezmer around the house. I don't have the heart to tell them they are not Jewish. Infact, I don't have the heart to not consider them Jewish. It would seem to me their is a cultural element there that might override.
--Ian

Shalom Ian,

God simply is not interested in what WE think is right. God tells us over and over again to yield to what HE tells us is right.

God wanted to keep the Jewish people a Nation apart from the rest of the world.

Vayikra (Leviticus) 20:26 - "And you (the Jews) shall remain holy unto Me, for I, God, am holy and I have separated you from the nations to be mine."

It is absolutely and totally forbidden by God for a Jew to date or marry a non-Jew.

Nechemya (Nehemiah) 10:30-31 - "...observe and fulfill all the commandments of God, our Lord, and His laws and His decrees, and that we would not give our daughters (in marriage) to the peoples of the land (non-Jews), nor take their daughters for our sons..."

This is part I - Part II next

Part II -

Judaism is NOT a religion. Judaism is a "bris," which is a "covenant," which means a "contract." God made a CONTRACTUAL relationship with the Jewish Nation, providing the fine print (the details) to the people at Sinai, 3,317 years ago.

As with all contracts, the responsible parties must be identifiable. God created a system whereby those who have the requirements will know who they are, and those who will be judged by the terms of the contract will also be easily identified.

God's system was matrilineal descent. The father is irrelevant.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'll show you this in action:

JEWISH FATHER, NON-JEWISH MOTHER - RESULT = NOT JEWISH

We turn to Ezra 10:2-3 - "...We have trespassed against our God, and have taken "nashim nachrios - gentile women"...Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all such women and all that are born to them...and let it be done according to the Torah."

Here we have couples who are Jewish fathers and non-Jewish mothers. It is a sin for a Jew to marry a non-Jew; "We have trespassed against our God..."

The men must now separate from those non-Jewish women for that is God's law. The men are also separating from the children born of those women, and leaving them behind, for these children are not Jewish. Had the children been Jewish, the men would still have separated from the women, but they would have been required to take the children with them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JEWISH MOTHER, NON-JEWISH FATHER - RESULT = JEWISH

We turn to Devarim (Deuteronomy) 7:3-4 - "Neither shall you make marriages with them, thy daughter you will not give to his son...for he will turn your son from following me."

Rashi tells us that the son being turned is the son of the Jewish daughter who married the non-Jew. Because the Hebrew says "your son," you know the son is Jewish, and that is explained by the Jewish mother.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When Moshiach brings every Jew alive in the world to Eretz Yisrael, the non-Jewish spouses and the non-Jewish children will not be coming.

With God it is obeyance first, and a good heart second, and not the other way around.

Best wishes, Eliahu

I just read in the L.A. Times, August 6, 2005 California section that the Reformed Jews now say one can be Jewish through the mother or the father.
--Ian

Shalom Ian,

So what's your point? Reform Jews hate Gods laws. Almost none of them keep kashrus, and few would even know how. I've never seen one yet that keeps Shabbos properly. I don't know of any that keep God's laws of taharah hamishpachah (family purity). I could go on and on and on...

Eventually God will judge them. That will not be a happy day.

Best wishes, Eliahu

quote:

Originally posted by Eliahu:
Shalom Ian,

So what's your point? Reform Jews hate Gods laws. Almost none of them keep kashrus, and few would even know how. I've never seen one yet that keeps Shabbos properly. I don't know of any that keep God's laws of taharah hamishpachah (family purity). I could go on and on and on...

Eventually God will judge them. That will not be a happy day.

Best wishes, Eliahu

Shalom, no, no point, I thought I would mention it because it was in the newspaper yesterday, and we were just talking about it. My mother just explained to me there are orthodox Jews, conservative Jews and reform Jews. She said she was raised conservative and that is inbetween orthodox and reform. For example, her family only went to temple on the high holidays. My family on my mother's side has always been very loving towards my Father's side, and my father's side very loving of her side, there has never been any conflict. The problem arose when my nephew asked my mother what is Jewish and if he was Jewish. She said well you can only be Jewish through the mother, but you are raised with our culture though. I would be very curious to know what the conservative view is. I would just like to have an idea of where things stand. I will have to go back and read Rabbi Mitterhaffs essay on G_d's understanding of sin. That may shed allot of light on this. I think we will all be fine in the eyes of one another in time. Infact, my Mother explained to me that the Jewish people believe the actual Messiah would be someone who brought world peace. That brings up another new interesting movement: Jews for Jesus. I think that actually sprung up in Israel. Time to go over to VirtualIsrael.com and research all of this.
Regards, Ian

Shalom Ian,

quote:

My mother just explained to me there are orthodox Jews, conservative Jews and reform Jews. She said she was raised conservative and that is inbetween orthodox and reform.

This is not true. In fact, this is a fallacy which is very harmful to Jews. Conservative Jews become comfortable with this idea that they're "not TOO bad."

There is only OBSERVANT and NON-OBSERVANT.

Conservative and reform are both on the non-observant side, although in different places in their non-observancy, while the orthodox are observant.

People need to understand this.

Regards, Eliahu

quote:

I would be very curious to know what the conservative view is.

First off, it does not matter what their view is. It ONLY matters what God's view is.

As of right now, the conservative only accept matrilineal descent, but that can change. As a non-observant movement, God is not very relevant to them, and they can VOTE to change whatever they want to change, any time they want to do so.

Just as they VOTED to allow driving on Shabbos, so long as it is only driving to temple.

Well, God has no law requiring one to go to temple, but God DOES have several laws forbidding driving on Shabbos.

Bottom line - Non-observance means doing whatever you want to do, and changing for convenience whenever you want to change - And Devarim (Deuteronomy) 13:1, and Devarim 17:8-11, simply don't exist as far as they're concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by Eliahu:

quote:

I would be very curious to know what the conservative view is.

First off, it does not matter what their view is. It ONLY matters what God's view is.

As of right now, the conservative only accept matrilineal descent, but that can change. As a non-observant movement, God is not very relevant to them, and they can VOTE to change whatever they want to change, any time they want to do so.

Just as they VOTED to allow driving on Shabbos, so long as it is only driving to temple.

Well, God has no law requiring one to go to temple, but God DOES have several laws forbidding driving on Shabbos.

Bottom line - Non-observance means doing whatever you want to do, and changing for convenience whenever you want to change - And Devarim (Deuteronomy) 13:1, and Devarim 17:8-11, simply don't exist as far as they're concerned.

Shalom,

Yes, point of view was a bad word to use on my part. I infact didn't ever know I had a point of view. Here I am Jewish, 3rd generation on my grandmother's side from Russia, 2nd generation on my grandfather's side out of Austria, yet I always thought that Judiasm was a religion, my mother too, we were both very surprised to find out it was not a religion but a contract with G_d. It reminds me of a story, a story the Bedouin brother inlaw of my brother told me. "A woman cut both sides of a chicken off before she put it in the oven to bake, and one day her daughter asked her, why do you always do that, I do too because you do. She said why in my day my mother always did that because the pans were to small." I do things not even knowing that some other reality exists. I don't think any of us felt we were not too bad, we just thought they were the way things were done and what they were because our ancestors did them that way.

Shalom,

This time you wrote a really good post that I can empathize with. Your mind is now filtering out junk and beginning to run on its own. I can see this.

Therefore let's move up to the next level of imiportant understanding, that is, the difference between morals and values.

For a Jew to drive an old lady to the market for milk on Shabbos because he feels sorry for her is immoral.

Most people will say it's nice. I will tell you flat out it's immoral.

Morality is immutable and from God. Not violating God's laws is moral. Violating God's laws is immoral. Simple. End of story.

Values are personal, and societal, and change daily. What your values are now, will be different an hour from now.

God want's a moral world, where a person will yield on his personal values in favor of the only morality in the Universe...God's.

Best Wishes, Eliahu

quote:

Originally posted by Eliahu:

God want's a moral world, where a person will yield on his personal values in favor of the only morality in the Universe...God's.

Best Wishes, Eliahu

This clearly explains the story of Abraham, his values said not to sacrifice his son, his morals said he had to, but God in the end, ofcourse, said he did not have too.

quote:

Originally posted by Eliahu:
Shalom Ian,

So what's your point? Reform Jews hate Gods laws. Almost none of them keep kashrus, and few would even know how. I've never seen one yet that keeps Shabbos properly. I don't know of any that keep God's laws of taharah hamishpachah (family purity). I could go on and on and on...

Eliahu,
I think your statement aginst Reform Jews is a little harsh. They don't hate G-d's laws, they don't know anything about G-d's laws. Your average Jew that identifies as Reform or Conservatve or any other hyphenated Jew for that matter, have little understanding of what Torah and Mitzvos are.

quote:

They don't hate G-d's laws, they don't know anything about G-d's laws. Your average Jew that identifies as Reform or Conservatve or any other hyphenated Jew for that matter, have little understanding of what Torah and Mitzvos are.

Why don't they know Aaron?

What is happening in those reform and conservative temples?

Regards, Eliahu

You're right,the leadership of these movements are spreading lies and creating misinformed Jews.
But, the average person that belongs to one of these places doesn't know any other way. They have been taught through society and libralism that "to each his own" is the best way. You have generations of families that have passed this down to thier children. These children don't know any better.
It's our job, as Jews that do know better, to get these "kidnapped children" to see the beauty of Torah and Mitvos. This can only be done through education and example not by telling them how bad and wrong they are and we are better.
"You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar"

Shalom Aaron,

quote:

the leadership of these movements (reform and conservative) are spreading lies and creating misinformed Jews.

Thank you for providing this very valuable information. It is essential that as many misinformed Jews as possible hear this, think about this, and use this information to transform themselves.

Sometimes a honey approach should be used, sometimes a vinegar approach, and sometimes an altogether different approach. One must use their seichal, for the object is to reach the people, and there is no single way that is always best.

Keep up the good work, Eliahu

Back to the original question

Women have a primary responsibility for bringing up the next generation. Since the beginning of Jewish history women determined the future of the Jewish nation. Sarah decided that Yishmael would develop his potential outside the Jewish nation, Rivka decided the same with Eisav. Both their husbands had very different ideas about what Yishmael's and Eisav's roles would be. But the female won out, and they determined basic historical patterns for all time.

This tells us that it is a female power to set the boundaries to something, to provide the framework within which we operate. This applies to a baby in the womb and to the definition of who is a Jew.

The ramifications of a woman's role is just as great nowadays.

we learn the law through the mother from scripture...the torah says we are concerned that a jewish woman marry a goy...for the child will chase idol worship...we care because the kid is jewish...conversly, we dont care wehn a jewish man marries a non jew...because that kid isnt jewish...now why God chose the mother...who knows.

quote:

conversly, we dont care wehn a jewish man marries a non jew...because that kid isnt jewish..

We don't care when a Jewish man marries a non Jew??? I'm not sure what you mean. Of course we care, its a tragedy, because amongst other things, his children are not Jewish and are lost to the Jewish nation.

we care, in that it is ussur for him to marry a non-jew...but in that he did it, we have no concern for his kids, because they arent jewish...since the limud of the pussuk teaches jewish seed goes by the mother.

quote:

Women have a primary responsibility for bringing up the next generation. Since the beginning of Jewish history women determined the future of the Jewish nation. Sarah decided that Yishmael would develop his potential outside the Jewish nation, Rivka decided the same with Eisav. Both their husbands had very different ideas about what Yishmael's and Eisav's roles would be. But the female won out, and they determined basic historical patterns for all time.

This tells us that it is a female power to set the boundaries to something, to provide the framework within which we operate. This applies to a baby in the womb and to the definition of who is a Jew.

The ramifications of a woman's role is just as great nowadays.

Shalom to all, this statement is very true. The mother's have more of a spiritual bonding annd connection to the children than the father because the child is feeding off of the mother for nine months. Yes, the mother is the nourisher and nurturer. She supplies the child with all it's needs. No different than the earth when a seed is placed in it. (The seed always determines what the fruit will be and not the other way around.) You drop an apple seed-which would be from the male-and you drop it into the earth-which would be the female-youer product will be whatever that seed is, therefore this particular seed will be an apple. Since the mother is the nourisher, she provides the child with everything that child needs, food, clothing, principles of life, etc. Has anyone noticed that geneologies deal with the men and not the daughters? That's because the seed of men is the determining factor. (Gen 10:1) And these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. And sons were born to them after the flood.

(Gen 10:2) The sons of Japheth: Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
Have you noticed any women here? What was Abraham told about his blessing? (Gen 13:15) For all the land which you see I will give to you, and to your seed always.

(Gen 13:16) And I will make your seed as the dust of the earth, so that if a man can count the dust of the earth, then your seed also will be counted. Who's seed is the covenant based on? (Gen 15:4) And behold! The Word of Jehovah came to him saying, This one shall not be inheriting. But he that shall come forth out of your own bowels shall be your heir. Here's another example: Abraham had a child by Hagar, but who's child was it? (Gen 17:20) And as to Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall father twelve chiefs, and I will make him a great nation. Why was Ishmael blessed? Because he fell under the covenant of his father through which the covenant came. And I will close out with this,
(Lev 21:13) And he shall take a wife in her virginity.

(Lev 21:14) He shall not take a widow, or one put away, or a polluted one, a harlot, but he shall take a virgin of his own people for a wife;

(Lev 21:15) and he shall not pollute his seed among his people; for I am Jehovah who sanctifies him.
Notice that the focus here is not to pollute the seed of the Kohane because he is holy to the Most High, just as the nation of Israel is holy to the Most High. The Kohane can only marry a virgin of Israel. That keeps the seed and line of Aaron pure, not the line of his wife. The issue in Ezra and Nehemiah with the women was because they were foreign. In other words, women outside of the Most High's laws, lawless women. Here's an example of that: (Lev 24:10) And the son of an Israelite woman, and he was a son of an Egyptian man, went out among the sons of Israel. And the son of the woman of Israel and a man of Israel struggled together in the camp.

(Lev 24:11) And the son of the woman of Israel blasphemed the Name, and cursed. And they brought him in to Moses; and his mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan.

(Lev 24:12) And they put him under guard, that it might be declared to them at the mouth of Jehovah.
This man had an Egyptian father, which means he had mostly Egyptian ways bred into him. He wasn't strong in the law because of his foreign background and he went out and blashemed the Most High's Name. Thus, he was killed for it. Why do you think the scriptures put that his father was Egyptian in there? To bring out the principle of how marrying foreigners can effect us. Look at the law of the king, he can't be a foreigner. He has to be from among our brotheren. But, he is able to marry women from any nation. There's nowhere in the tanach that the king is specified, like the Kohane, to have a virgin Israelite woman. He just can't have too many wives. Why? As to not turn his heart astray to the foreign deities. That's the main reason we shouldn't take foreign women from other nations. And foreign in this case means not following the will of the Most High. I can go on and on with this because examples are all the way through the Tanach. How can one still think that the nation is determined by the woman after you read the Tanach? The whole history is basically talking about the men. Nations were made from Abraham but, those nations he made came through the nourishing womb of Sarah. Sarah did not make the nations, they just came through her. I pray that this helps in clarification of the determining factor of a nation. I have one more question, why is the word Jew not found in the Hebrew in the Tanach? If you're going to say that the word Jew is from Yahudite or Judah, what do you call the other 11 tribes, being that Judah is only 1 tribe. And if you're calling yourselves Yahudites then how can some of you claim to be Kohanim? That's 1 of the other 11 tribes. Just curious Shalom to all who read this this. I just like to try to uphold truth when I can. I don't like to see anyone misled.