quote:

When it gets below edible for dogs

There's a so-called kosher gelatin that seems to come around every Pesach in candies by Rabbi Sheinkoff or something which relies on this principle to permit gelatin which comes from hooves of treif animals.

Is his reasoning valid?

Are there any established Frum communities which accept his hechsher?

quote:

Originally posted by Rav Chaim:
Over here, like R’ Yisrael says, it depends on human consumption. If it loses it, it’s considered not fit for a Ger.

Did you really mean to say "not fit for a Ger"?

Usually kosher gelatin comes from kosher fish.

Sam,
There is a little confusion with the modern usage of the term ger (geyr). It literally means an alien or foreigner. In Torah it's contextualized or has qualifiers. In this particular case it's geyr toshav because a convert geyr (some call geyr tzedek) is a Jew and you wouldn't want to feed him treif. A geyr toshav is a goy living Eretz Yisrael and it's a special designation established by a beit din.

quote:

Usually kosher gelatin comes from kosher fish.

Regardless of whether this is the case, there is a rabbi who documents his reasoning for permitting gelaten made from treif animals' hoofs and bones since they pass through a state in which a dog would not eat it.

Is that reasoning halachically sound?

Is a hechsher relying on such reasoning accepted by any established communities' standards?

Rob,
In the example you give, decomposing bones and hoofs are really equivalent to mining not shechting. Theoretically, in my humble opinion, I don't see any problem with them. The Shulchan Aruch says if you have worms in figs and allow those worms to die and decompose until they are a powder a year later, you may eat those dried figs. I think the reasoning would be the same here, although I cannot attest to the standards of any specific hekscher.

This was based on the Drasha R’ Yisrael brought that we learn Issurim must be edible from giving Nivailos to a Ger (Toshuv) that it must be edible to a Ger Toshuv i.e for humen consumption. Thus the expression of that which is edib;e is Royeh L’Ger (fit for a Ger) and those that are not is considered Ain Royeh L’Ger (not fit for the Ger.)

There are earlier Halacha authorities that do write that such is permitted, but the accepted Halachic opinion is to prohibit it, as Rav Moshe Poskins.

quote:

Originally posted by rob:

quote:

Usually kosher gelatin comes from kosher fish.

Regardless of whether this is the case, there is a rabbi who documents his reasoning for permitting gelaten made from treif animals' hoofs and bones since they pass through a state in which a dog would not eat it.

Who is this Rabbi?

Rav Chaim Ozer Grodzenski, Rav Zvi Pesach Frank, Rav Yechezkel Abramsky, to name but a few, all permitted animal based gelatin, as do the Rabbanut in Israel.

In other places (e.g. the USA and UK) they are more strict and don't permit it, even though Rav Abramsky was at one time the head of the London Beis Din.

Getting back to the eggs. There is an issur of blood in eggs. This only applies to fertilized eggs which are not permitted to be sold. However since someday they may be permitted to be sold, if we find a blood spot it is permitted to put it with two other eggs for the omlet. In any event you have to remove the blood spot.
Where people do use fertilized eggs, they cook them in a disposible pot so if they find a blood spot, they can throw out the pot (usually a tin can).
In the US and Europe, eggs are candled and those with blood spots are thrown out. They don't do this of the goodness of their hearts, but people who find blood spots, don't buy eggs. In Israel, Tnuva has been asked many times to candle their eggs but I don't know if they ever complied.

Aryeh Shore

Aryeh,
Does the issur still hold for boiled eggs? If I cracked a boiled egg and started to eat it, then I encounter the little spot of blood in the yolk...then what?

What about cheeses? From my understanding all cheeses and yogurts are made with a substance that originally comes from animal renit- however it takes only a tiny tiny concentrated amount to be able to create large batches of dairy products, and it can be recreated from a small sample of the original renit...

Why is this kosher (if my understanding is even correct!) Does it fall under the category of being nullified because of the small quantities or because its not something fit for consumption?

Bracha,
There is the issue of dilution, to which you allude. Yes, the 1/60 rule seems to be in play. but more importantly the renit is really a substance, not part of behema anymore, just like descicated bones, hooves and hides. The problem is getting a Gadol who will permit them even though theoretically they are ok. When it comes to poseking and heksherim everyone tends to be machmir so the tendency is to forbid it even when it could be permissible. As I said earlier, these substances are no longer in the realm of behema but rather in the realm of "mining".

I think you are confusing rennet with gelatin.

Kosher cheese is made with kosher rennett. If the rennett is not kosher, then the cheese is not kosher because the rennett is such a vital component (a "davar hama'amid") that any treifus would never become nullified.

So if you are a vegetarian, look for kosher cheese that is marked as vegetarian (ordinary vegetarian cheese is not permitted at all).

Kosher cheeses today use rennet from genetically engineered bacteria which are accepted by all. (Although someone did come up with a possible problem called maamid but it was shot down.)

A.S.

As for boiled eggs,

You can eat the boiled egg. There is no need to remove the blood spot but if it isn't too much trouble you can remove it.However since eggs are so cheap today, a lot of people would just throw it away.
Again this assumes that you are using supermarket eggs and you cook more than two eggs at a time.

A.S.

Aryeh,
Why do I have to boil at least two eggs at a time and why do they have to be from the supermarket?

Isn't it 3 eggs and not 2, since you then have a majority vs. minority?

Aryeh did say "more than two eggs" which suggests at least 3.