QUOTE:
here is the quote from the Achiezer.

ועל כן אם כי הי' נכון לכתחלה לשנות ולהביא מלה אחרת כמו דער עוויגער שעפער או לעשות כמו שנהוג אצלנו לעשות קו מפריד בין אות ג' ואות ט' או בכל
אופן שימצאו עצה לתקן להוציא מידי חשש עוררים
QUOTE:

Thank you for the quote. Unfortunatly this does not back you at all. He seems to be saying l'halacha the placing of a - in the name of God accomplishes nothing. The only reason to do it at all would be to prevent people who don't know any better from suspecting you of doing something wrong. So in reality this what I have been saying!

The Tashbatz regarding the sanctity of Hashem's name is 1:2, and he doesn't support your position. Look up seforim before quoting them.

If anything the Achiezer is saying the exact opposite of your interpretation, that there is no need to use a hyphen. According to your interpretation it is forbidden according to halacha, not just "to prevent people who don't know any better from suspecting you of doing something wrong, you are actually doing something wrong!

QUOTE

If anything the Achiezer is saying the exact opposite of your interpretation, that there is no need to use a hyphen. According to your interpretation it is forbidden according to halacha, not just "to prevent people who don't know any better from suspecting you of doing something wrong, you are actually doing something wrong! QUOTE

NOW you are misquoting me. What I said was there was no point in putting in the hyphen because it does not accomplish anything! If you hold it is forbidden, the hyphen does not permit IT. If it is permitted , again there is no point in puttin in the hyphen.

QUOTE
The Tashbatz regarding the sanctity of Hashem's name is 1:2, and he doesn't support your position. Look up seforim before quoting them.
QUOTE

Perhaps you should know what you are looking at, before accusing people. Please expain how he does not support my position.

B"H

Rabbi Peretz, and Rabbi Kacev, SHALOM!

I think that what has been most dexterously shown by the two Rabbis here, in this thread, is that there is a "machlokes acharonim" (a dispute by the latter exponents of ours laws) in the matter of whether or not it is permissible to erase the word G-d when it is hyphenated.

Sincerely,
David Ben-Abraham

quote:

Originally posted by Rabbi Y. Kacev:
NOW you are misquoting me. What I said was there was no point in putting in the hyphen because it does not accomplish anything! If you hold it is forbidden, the hyphen does not permit IT. If it is permitted , again there is no point in puttin in the hyphen.

quote:

Writing the name of God in other languages are known as "kinuyyim" (names by which God is reffered to). Therefore there is no distinction between writing it with a hyphen or not,they are both "kinuyyim".

Since everyone agrees that a kinui may not be disgraced, I don't see where you left room for the possibility "if it is permitted..."

quote:

Originally posted by Rabbi Y. Kacev:
Perhaps you should know what you are looking at, before accusing people. Please expain how he does not support my position.

I'm sorry but the Tashbatz is your source. The burden of proof is on you to show where in his words he supports your theory that "a word that people use to refer to Hashem is automatically a kinui.
Have you seen the Tashbatz? If yes, why didn't you provide us with the exact location days ago

quote:

Originally posted by David Ben-Abraham:
B"H

Rabbi Peretz, and Rabbi Kacev, SHALOM!

I think that what has been most dexterously shown by the two Rabbis here, in this thread, is that there is a "machlokes acharonim" (a dispute by the latter exponents of ours laws) in the matter of whether or not it is permissible to erase the word G-d when it is hyphenated.

Sincerely,
David Ben-Abraham

I would be happy to acknowledge that there is a machlokes if Hashem's name hyphenated must be respected if I heard of an acharon who forbids it. Unless you were referring to us as the "latter exponents of ours laws"
However, regarding erasing, it is generally accepted to be permitted, though R' Moshe forbids erasing the name G-d when written out. The issue we are debating is may it be taken into the bathroom etc.

QUOTE
Since everyone agrees that a kinui may not be disgraced, I don't see where you left room for the possibility "if it is permitted..."
QUOTE

Of course there is the possibility that it is permitted, to those who hold the name "GOD" is not a kinnuy.

quote:

Have you seen the Tashbatz? If yes, why didn't you provide us with the exact location days ago

I have not had the opportunity to be in the Beis medrash that had the copy of the Tashbatz. When I do I will be happy to provide you with the exact page.

B"H

Rabbi Peretz,

I had inadvertently left out one word in my previous post, which made a world of difference in understanding what I meant. The word is "not." So, I will re-write the statement, with its correction.

Rabbi Peretz, and Rabbi Kacev, SHALOM!

I think that what has been most dexterously shown by the two Rabbis here, in this thread, is that there is a "machlokes acharonim" (a dispute by the latter exponents of ours laws) in the matter of whether or not it is permissible to erase the word G-d when it is not hyphenated.

The difference, I think, is between the Mishna Berura and the Achiezer.

Sincerely,
David Ben-Abraham

quote:

Originally posted by Rabbi Y. Kacev:
Of course there is the possibility that it is permitted, to those who hold the name "GOD" is not a kinnuy.

Who holds that? R' Moshe writes the opposite, that it is a proper name of Hashem and may not even be erased. The Shach and everyone else I saw (including the Tashbatz) write that Hashem's name in a foreign language have a similar halacha to a kinui, they may be erased but not disgraced.

QUOTE
Actually, the Shach YD 179:11 writes that one may erase the name of Hashem written in a foreign language and it is not a kinui QUOTE

This is a quote from your very own post!

B"H

If I might interject somewhat, here, I think I might be able to alleviate much of the confusion that is prevalent here, and which seems to impede the good progress of this intellectual debate.

There seems to be some confusion between the word, "Azkaros," אזכרות , and the word, "Kinui," כנוי .

Generally speaking, an "Azkarah" is any name which, when written in Hebrew, cannot be defaced, such as: Lo-rd, G-d, Sha-dai, etc. These names are sometimes given the term, "Shammos," in Yiddish. They require our utmost respect and reverence, and must be stored-away or buried when books that contain such writings are no longer useful.

A "Kinui," on the other hand, is a word which implies one of the other attributes that are normally given for G-d, and which have a lesser degree of sanctity, such as: Hakadosh Boruch Hu הקב"ה , Hamakom המקום , Hashem השם , the Merciful One רחמנא , etc.

Differentiating between ordinary names used for G-d and those that are only minor attributes, will help our discussion considerably.

quote:

Originally posted by Rabbi Y. Kacev:

quote:

Since everyone agrees that a kinui may not be disgraced, I don't see where you left room for the possibility "if it is permitted..."

Of course there is the possibility that it is permitted, to those who hold the name "GOD" is not a kinnuy.

Sorry, I didn't explain myself clearly. The issue here is not erasing "God", because except for R' Moshe, all poskim write that Hashem's name in a foreign language even when written fully without a hyphen is not worse than a kinui which may be erased. But even according to the Shach I quoted previously (and also the Tashbatz who writes that it is similar to a kinui) one may not disgrace a kinui or a foreign language. So everyone agrees that the word "God" may not be disgraced.
The real issue here is not whether "God" is a kinui or not, because that is just an issue of semantics, almost everyone agrees it may be erased but not disgraced. The issue is, may "G-d" be disgraced. In this issue you seem to be of the firm opinion that it may not, while I have brought a number of poskim that it may.
So when I asked "Who holds that?", I meant who holds that "God" has a more lenient halacha than a kinui and may be disgraced.
I hope now I have made myself clear.

quote:

The real issue here is not whether "God" is a kinui or not, because that is just an issue of semantics, almost everyone agrees it may be erased but not disgraced. The issue is, may "G-d" be disgraced. In this issue you seem to be of the firm opinion that it may not, while I have brought a number of poskim that it may.
So when I asked "Who holds that?", I meant who holds that "God" has a more lenient halacha than a kinui and may be disgraced.
I hope now I have made myself clear.

You will have to make yourself clearer because this statement seems contradictory.

Simply said, I brought in the name of the poskim that "God" may be erased but not taken into the bathroom, "G-d" may even be taken into the bathroom. This seems to be unanimous, except for R' Moshe who forbids erasing "God".
You seem to forbid taking "G-d" into the bathroom, but implying that according to the Shach it would be permitted. I am asking, where do we find a disagreement between the Shach and the other poskim?

I remember in Yeshiva where someone wrote on the blackboard, Hashem's 4 letter name - the letter yud, and hey, and vav, and hey, written out as it is written in the sefer torah etc. And the question was if one can now erase the blackboard, the answer I remember hearing is that if you turn the "ה" into a "ק" then it is now NOT Hashem's name and it is okay to erase.

But, wouldn't making the Hey into a Kuf itself tantamount to erasing the name, since you're changing it from the Shem to something else?