I would like to know what proof we have from Tanakh that there is an afterlife - and what we know about it. Recently, I've been thinking that it feels safer (even though I am shomer mitzvot) to disuade myself in believing in a "next world".

Not only is it not safer to disbelieve in olam haba but the Gemara in Sanhedrin says that one who doesn't believe in it doesn't get any part of it as he/she is considered a heretic. There is also an entire section of gemara that asks how we know that belief in Olam haba is from the Torah and gives several sources. (I don't have the cd to do a search at this moment but it's easy to find) There are, by the way, a at least two olam habas (olamot habaim) - the one where neshamot go after death for reward and punishment and the one that will exist in this world after the Moshiach comes.

B"H
My dear Nachama,
One of the earliest sources for an "afterlife" or an "afterworld" are the many references throughout the Torah and the books of the Neviim where after one of the fathers had died, it says about him that "he was gathered to his people."
Sincerely,
David

I have read this book but did not recall its full title -- since it applies to this thread, I'll post this link here http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1568712499/qid=1134437...846&s=books&v=glance

Yaakov Astor's "Soul Searching"

Soul searching: Seeking scientific ground for the Jewish tradition of an afterlife (Unknown Binding)
by Yaakov Astor

Feldheim 2003

Feldheim is offering a 20% discount till the end of December 2005. For the book mentioned above

194 pages , Paperback
List price: $13.95
You pay $11.16 a 20% savings!
ISBN: 1-56871-249-9
Targum Press

Here's a blurb on the page which can be accessed by the link below.

For over two centuries, scientists have denied or ignored the possiblity of an afterlife. Now, however, research has taken an unexpected turn, finding compelling evidence of the existence of life after death and the human soul. This beautifully written, well documented book compares ancient Jewish teachings, and contemporary research on the subject of the afterlife. It is a fascinating, valuable, and insightful contribution to Jewish literature.


http://www.feldheim.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=1-568...tore&category=search

tradition tells us there is world to come. where this is in the tankh i do not know. yes it is better one truly has no thoughts of the world to come in my oppion.

it is taught that if man contemplete on four things it would have been better if he was never born. what is before him, what is after, what is above, what is below. but one still desire to know teh rabbis went on to say that what is after is a place of worm and maggots.
"Pirkat Avot"

in fact when one thinks little to no thoughts of the world to come they are to me like a servent who serves a king without the desire of a reward; were as thoses who look foward to it becomes a question mark. which is why when dov ber of Mizzrech heard it decree he wasn't able to enter into Pardes he was joyous. for he said "up until now I wonder if my service was without the sake of a reward now i know my service to G-d without question is not for a reward."

Mack - cant agree with what you said more, but unfortunately I am not on the level of Dov Ber of Mizrech; which is why I asked the question in the first place. I mean if I dont keep Mitzvit, and there is no after life, then hey I really didnt miss out on that much. But I f I keep mitzvot (but not well enough) and their an afterlife....their are just tooo many frightening possibilities.

Its scary to contemplate the future, or past, or anything "out of this world" yet I dont understand people that dont think about these things either.

Anyhow, thank you Sam and Rob for the book you recommended. I bought it today, and will iyH start it on Shabbos.

quote:

which is why I asked the question in the first place. I mean if I dont keep Mitzvit, and there is no after life, then hey I really didnt miss out on that much. But I f I keep mitzvot (but not well enough) and their an afterlife....their are just tooo many frightening possibilities.

If I may share two thoughts.

There is a famous term for a hedged bit used to describe Avraham Avinu's brother in the Midrash who did _not_ survive being thrown into Nimrod's furnace... he said to himself if Avraham survives, I'll believe in Hashem and stand up to Nimrod... but if Avraham does not survive, I'll tell Nimrod I'm with him.

Avraham survived, but since the brother's faith was not strong, he did not merit the same miracle.

So on this one hand, it might not be sufficient to just go through the motions of keeping mitzvos.

Yet... from elsewhere...

Every Jew is born with the potential of earning some place in the World to Come. And among all who earn some place in the World to Come, there will be some who have earned places closer in, and others who have earned places less close, who may have to work a little harder to attain all the goodness which is set aside for us there.

Which is to say that all the goodness is attainable for all that earn any place in the World to Come, just that it may take a little more work to attain it, whatever it is, than one who earns a place closer to it in the first place.

...

Please post your thoughts on the book as you read it!

quote:

Originally posted by Nechama S:
Anyhow, thank you Sam and Rob for the book you recommended. I bought it today, and will iyH start it on Shabbos.

You are most welcome. If you need any more recommendations for great Jewish titles, please ask. And, welcome to the Global Yeshiva.

why do you feel if there wasn't an after life then you don't miss out on much if you do not observe the mitzvah?

as much do you feel, the point of the mitzvah are they are keys to open up the gates to the garden edan and if there is not garden then what use are these key?

why be frighten? for the act of a mitzvah is to bind oneself to HaShem sort of like tefflin to the arm. and when one misses out on doing these mitzvah in this world then one miss out on the greatest experience in the world. which is to have hand in bringing the world to come (messinic era).

if one strive in the mitzvah with great joy then it will alway be more then enough. is my thought on this.

Quote "I mean if I dont keep Mitzvit, and there is no after life, then hey I really didnt miss out on that much. But If I keep mitzvot (but not well enough) and their an afterlife....their are just tooo many frightening possibilities."

Wouldn’t the biggest tragedy that there is an afterlife and someone decided not to do the Mitzvos too well, because the thought of the afterlife was too scary, so she dropped it all, so now she can’t get too much of an afterlife, since she gave up on it in such a matter.

The point being, that the more Mitzvos you do, the better it will be for you, period, both in this world and in the next. The more Aveiros you do, then the converse. It doesn’t do anyone good to put their heads in the sand with the hope that the problem goes away. Death is going to come, as it does to everyone. There is no way of getting away from the angel of death. It seems from your post that in reality you really believe in an afterlife, and if it would be simple to acquire, you wouldn’t have a doubt. It’s only prompted on what you see as it being hard to achieve that you’re hoping there is none.

Shlome Hamelech says in Koheles 7 "You should not sin a lot." The Gemarah in Shabbos 31b asks, is he insinuating that you can sin a little bit? But rather, if you already sinned somewhat, don’t say I might as well go on sinning, rather stop the bleeding as soon as possible. If someone ate a clove of garlic and his breath reeks, should he eat more garlic so that his breath should reek a lot more? It’s always preferable to do as much Mitzvos and at least Aveiros as possible, even if you won’t be a complete Tzadik.

To tell you the truth, I think you’re at a better position than most people. The very fact that you recognize that there is a lot of ways to improve your Avoda to Hashem and that it’s lacking and there is a need to fix it. Most people, no matter how little they do, just assume that they’re Tzadikim and that Hashem will just bestow them with goods, and go through life without realizing that they need to improve themselves. I sit in Kollel the whole day, and you don’t think that I’m worried about the Yom Hadin? Of course I’m afraid. But with that attitude, at least we know where we need to improve and start working on to improve it. We must take baby steps, and little by little be able to improve ourselves until we become more worthy of Hashem’s reward.

And remember as well, All Yisrael has a portion in the afterlife (and only a few loses them) (Sanhedrin 90a) and the more you improve yourself the more you improve your situation.

Well, I got the book soul searching. From what I can understand (AND I COULD BE WAY OFF) but the book sold by Feldheim is not the original book. The original were essays and discussions by R' Ezrial Tauber, and a psychologist (Dr. Weiss(i believe)). Feldheim did not publish it in the original format, they put in more R' Tauber the Jewish approach, and less Dr. Weiss (the secular understanding) the book was pretty good, a little repetetive, very inspiring, easy reading, but I think I might be interested in the original...
The book didnt really answer my questions of what is or if there is a next world. it just assumed a G-d and an Olam Habba (which I guess from a feldheim publishing - it makes sence. But anyhow...it wspoke very poetically of halachos after a person is nifter and how we treat the body, that was totally inspirational. I mean a religion that treats that aspect of life (or death) so beautifully really gave me chizzuk.

I questioned a lot about this olam habbah question i have, and it totally has to do with my emunah in observing mitzvoit and believing in G-d; but I guess thats for a different post.

quote:

it just assumed a G-d and an Olam Habba

I thought the book did a very nice job of articulating how agnostic or otherwise secular practicioners found overwhelming indication from Near Death Experiences that there was more to life than just our physical bodies that they came to this realization without assumption?

I was particularly struck by the sense of calm and the sense of belief that all was going according to plan reportedly held by NDE survivors the way the book presented it.

This book is authored by Yaakov Astor and seems to indeed be reporting heavily on the works of others. I am not sure if there is an "original" so much as prior work and prior reports upon which this book started?

A useful article:

http://www.aish.com/rabbi/ATR_browse.asp?l=a&offset=4

thank you

How about this? David ha-Melekh writes (PS 130) "with you is forgiveness that you may be feared." Why would we fear somebody full of rachamin and slikha? Maybe because we khow that if the there is know slikha from H' then there would be khow need of fear of him. We would listen to the Yatser ha-raa one time and then we would spend eternity burning. Its over and done with, spend the rest of your years here on earth doing what you want. Since there is slikha we can do tshuva and then fall back into doing mitzvot in "yerea and ahava shemayim."

Just my 2 cents