Lori;

Perhaps our understanding of kabbala is different. Many people can be deisel mechanics, but you can't take just any one of them to operate nuclear reactor. The forces found in kabbala are the same forces that split the Red Sea. One has to be disciplined and knowledgeable to mess with them.

Indeed kabbala is Torah but it is a much higher form of Torah. If you are messing with kabbala, you do become a mystic. It's for this reason many insist that one learns the Torah, at least, along with kabbala. Dabbling with a nuclear reactor without knowing the basics in nuclear physics can be dangerous. The fallout from a nuclear reactor hurts you and those around you, let alone Klal Yisrael as a whole. I don't know anyone who advocates teaching children kabbala without the basics of Torah.

You are a biochemist, I'm sure you'd never allow anyone who doesn't know the first thing about chemistry to mess with your lab and your work.

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Perhaps our understanding of kabbala is different.

That could be. I am not what is "popularly" referred to as a "practical kabbalist" - I merely understand Torah "kabbalistically", if that makes any sense. So, really, for me, kabbalah is nothing more than Torah study and a way to "make understanding", sort of. I realize that there are "methods" for "doing" things - I'm not into amulets and such things. Perhaps I'm using wrong terminology, but I am more what might be called a "contemplative kabbalist".

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The forces found in kabbalah are the same forces that split the red sea

I understand that. Hashem is guiding my path. So, the sea and me are good to go.

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One has to be disciplined and knowledgeable to mess with them

Lech lecha. Was I supposed to say "no thanks"?

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If you are messing with kabbalah, you become a mystic

Ok then. I am a mystic by default, then so be it. But, I still think that I am not. I merely study Torah.

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Dabbling with a nuclear reactor without knowing the basics of nuclear physics can be dangeorus

I know a little about nuclear physics. Nevertheless that I am not a physicist is Hashem's problem. My "nuclear reactor" requires my study. Far be it for me to ignore it.

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The fallout from a nuclear reactor can hurt you and those around you, and klal Yisrael as a whole

Then it is up to Hashem to send me a teacher because it is Hashem who has driven my study.

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I don't know anyone who advocates teaching children kabbalah without the basics of Torah

I know the basics of Torah. But, even if I didn't, Hashem will be merciful to whomever Hashem chooses to be merciful to.

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You are a biochemist - you'd never allow someone who didn't know the first thing about chemistry to mess in your lab or with your work

You are right. I wouldn't. Unless I was there teaching them. Hashem is with me, and is my teacher.

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It's getting late here now, so gotta go

Shabbat shalom.

Lori,
Judaism is not like Christianity where people say "it's between HaShem and I". Judaism is communal. So if I screw up the nuclear reactor and destroy thousands of lives, HaShem may forgive me but won't bring back the lives I just destroyed. The damage is done and I would need to make a lot of tikun for it. There are many brands of kabbala out there, in my view, the only kabbala that counts is that which is taught and learned within the context of Torah. Judging by your website, you may very well be doing that. But I didn't want us to leave the impression that the kabbala of Madonna and the likes of her is benign. It creates mystical problems for all of us. Everything we do, from donning tefillin to saying the Shema before we retire has kabbalistic implications. It takes discipline and wisdom to do it right. That wisdom is in kabbala and it's serious business because it's not just "HaShem and I". It's about all Klal Yisrael. Shabbat Shalom!

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Judaism is not like Christianity where people say "it's between HaShem and I". Judaism is communal.

True. And those within the community who have attempted to thwart my Torah study should understand they are not only attempting to hurt me, but are hurting the entire community as well. And those who have failed to defend me in the face of these attempts should understand this as well. So many shots have been fired at me, yet I am still here and so is my Torah.

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So, if I screw up the nuclear reactor

As I said before, Hashem is with me. My nuclear reactor is in good hands.

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The only kabbalah that counts is that taught within the context of Torah. Judging by your website, you may very well be doing that.

My website is not for those who may be "shocked" by truth. Torah is truth. My kabbalah counts.

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But I didn't want us to leave the impression that the kabbalah of Madonna and the likes of her is benign.

How did Madonna get into this discussion? I am not Madonna. My name is Liorah.

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Everything we do has kabbalistic implications

no doubt

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It's not just Hashem and I. It's all about klal Yisrael.

See paragraph 1.

I agree with Moshe Y. The Rama, Shach Gra all held Halachically (in YD 248) not to learn Kabalah until 40 years old and know Shas and Poskim. Even those Chasidim, that Aryeh points out, that learnt in Yeshiva had learn only some Kaballah and was balanced with the main learning in Shas and Poskim. Nobody in their right mind in traditional Orthodox judaism would teach Kabbalah to people that have no background in Shas and Poskim. This in itself gives away that its not traditional Judaism. It’s just part of the "popular Kabalah". That’s why, when the rest of us read your post, it comes across funny.

I believe the student was referring to kabbalistic perush of the torah, not the study of kabballah. The Ramban was the first to introduce kabbalistic interpetations (even if he wrote some of them in code) and I consider the Klei Yakar a Kabbalistic perush. Since the Klei Yakar in found the Mikreaot Gedolot (Until recently the most popular form of torah with commentaries) and this form was approved for the general population, using kabbalistic perushim for torah text study is not included in the prohibition to study kabballah.
I believe even the Art Scroll will bring a kabbalistic perush from time to time.

Aryeh Shore

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This in itself gives away that its not traditional Judaism. It’s just part of the "popular Kabalah". That’s why, when the rest of us read your post, it comes across funny.

Feel free to laugh. I am undaunted.

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I believe the student was referring to kabbalistic perush of the torah, not the study of kabballah. The Ramban was the first to introduce kabbalistic interpetations

Yes, giving kabbalistic interpretations. That is what I am doing based upon what I know of Kabbalah-Torah, my understanding and my experience. For example, I have preincarnate memories of my soul's pre-physical existence (I imagine the angel just forgot to flick my chin - or was out on another mission when I was born ). I use kabbalah to understand those, and in turn, I integrate my experience to make understanding through interpreting Torah-kabbalah (as it pertains to the development-mission of my particular soul-spark).

Well... what can I say... There are many interesting thoughts to think on your most recent posting Liorah, however, I am only going to address one small point...

You said:

(I imagine the angel just forgot to flick my chin - or was out on another mission when I was born )


...The angel doesn't flick a child's chin. Its the upper lip.

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The angel doesn't flick a child's chin. Its the upper lip.

You're right. My reference to Niddah 30b says "mouth", not chin. Either way though, the angel didn't flick me and I still remember.