B"H

I would like to pose this question to Dr. Laurence ("Aryeh") Shore.

Our Midrashic literature has plenty of references about the Salamander (one of the eight vermins mentioned in Vayikra (parashas Shemini) under the name of "Tinshemes," and that it was first created by fire. Its blood is allegedly supposed to be fire retardant.

A recent discovery by a Swedish scientist shows that grapes and citrus fruits are also natural fire retardants. (see: http://www.theworldchallenge.co.uk/fireproof.php )

Some chemical fire retardants are bromide and chlorine, but these are seen as harmful to one's health.

Has there been any research or experiments done with the blood of the salamander, showing that, it too, is a fire retardant? (Let's say, by spreading its blood over a piece of paper and putting a flame to the paper.) What is the chemical make-up of the salamander's blood?

David

They (e.g. Tanchuma, Rabbi Akiva, Rashi, Aruch) also thought it spontaneously generated from fire.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=67&letter=S

I would say this is just Chazal being modern Orthodox, in paying heed to the contemporary modern science of the Greeks (e.g. Aristotle) and that even if we find *something* akin to it in that there is some fire-retardant property, this is not due to some deep knowledge Chazal had but rather simply reliance upon Greek science.

It would be interesting to know, though.

This isn't modern science, but from 17th century, where people apparently did test this out. From Sir Thomas Browne:

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/pseudodoxia/pseudo314.html

"THAT a Salamander is able to live in flames, to endure and put out fire, is an assertion, not only of great antiquity, but confirmed by frequent, and not contemptible testimony. The Egyptians have drawn it into their Hieroglyphicks, Aristotle seemeth to embrace it; more plainly Nicander, Sarenus Sammonicus, Ælian and Pliny, who assigns the cause of this effect: An Animal (saith he) so cold that it extinguisheth the fire like Ice. All which notwithstanding, there is on the negative, Authority and Experience: Sextius a Physitian, as Pliny delivereth, denied this effect; Dioscorides affirmed it a point of folly to believe it; Galen that it endureth the fire a while, but in continuance is consumed therein. For experimental conviction, Mathiolus affirmeth, he saw a Salamander burnt in a very short time:[1] and of the like assertion is Amatus Lusitanus;[2] and most plainly Pierius, whose words in his Hieroglyphicks are these;[3] Whereas it is commonly said that a Salamander extinguisheth the fire, we have found by experience, that it is so far from quenching hot coals, that it dieth immediately therein. As for the contrary assertion of Aristotle, it is but by hear-say, as common opinion believeth, Hæc enim (ut aiunt) ignem ingrediens, eum extinguit; and therefore there was no absurdity in Galen, when as a Septical medicine4 he commended the ashes of a Salamander; and Magicians in vain from the power of this Tradition, at the burning of Towns or Houses expect a relief from Salamanders..."

you can read more by following the link.

to clarify what I meant above: you yourself noted "that it was first created by fire."

But they believed that it was consistently created by fire, and only spontaneously generated, rather than by normal reproduction.

B"H

Thank-you, Josh, for these very, very interesting references! Perhaps you are right about the Sages adopting the popular views of the Greeks at that time in history.

David

1. Cold blooded animals like salamanders can tolerate heat and cold much better than vetebrates. You can put a frog in the refrigerator and take him out six months later and he will come back to life.
2. However there is no special about salamanders from any other cold blooded vertebrate.
3. The naturally occuring molecular heat eater article had nothing in it which would indicate that it is or how it would work nor is there any scientific literature to evaluate it. I gather it is the polyphenols in the grapes which destroy free radicals are the active agent. These compounds are the reason one should drink a glass of wine a day.
4. Nobody does any research on salamanders or novel compounds in their blood. We did get a new antibiotic from frog secretions a few years ago and toad venom is a major tool in biochemical studies.
5. In one of my brilliant scintillating articles, I point out the weakness in using scientific literature to support observations made in the Talmud. On of the cases discussed was how the tiferret yisrael writing in the 1850 cites a German zoologist (Plank, giving the book and page number, first scientific reference in perushim of the mishneh) from 1824 who discusses the Egyptian papyrii observations on the half mouse and half dirt.