Thank you for mentioning this article. It was very interesting and also it led me to a good Jewish site http://www.jewishmediaresources.org/ to add to my list of sites to visit. And when one visits one can do searches , which I see as useful.

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In regard to the El Al problem, have a look at this article Article about El Al Flight Path

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In regard to the El Al problem, have a look at this article Article about El Al Flight Path

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Yisroel,
The reason I asked about Australia was because it's on the other side of the planet. I'm assuming that tumah works both ways. The earth below the body is contaminated just as much as the earth above the corpse. So the tuma would go deep into the earth to the other side unhindered? If the grave is in Australia all the earth under the corpse would convey tumah all the way back to us? Goofy thinking?

MosheYisraeli,
I can't find a source, but I am presuming that the tuma goes only as far as the centre of the Earth (assuming it does go down).

I remember learning something very interesting about the beis hamikdash-

from what i remember, the beis hamikdash was built in duplicate on two levels, there was the beis hamikdash as was revealed to the common eye, and there was the psuedo beis hamikdash built below, with all of the chambers mirroring those on ground level. The below ground level psuedo beis hamikdash was built in order to prevent the beis hamikdash from being directly on earth without the ohel needed to prevent those above ground from being mekabel tumos mes.

just thought that was interesting...

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Originally posted by Yisroel Phillips:
MosheYisraeli,
I can't find a source, but I am presuming that the tuma goes only as far as the centre of the Earth (assuming it does go down).

If tuma does indeed extend downward, wouldnt underground tunnels pose a problem for kohanim? they would be INSIDE of the ohel, not having an ohel seperating between them... is my thinking off?

THIS IS DEFINATELY GOOFY THINKING!!! Does anyone remember in science class as a kid when we learned that there is a thin crust enveloping molten lava and then a core? Anything going below the crust is going to get torched, vaporized and reprocessed! Australia isn't below anymore than Israel is below Australia. The world was made round by God so that everyone could be on top, maybe? The silly way we humans equate importance and purity.

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Originally posted by Yisroel Phillips:

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Yisroel,
The reason I asked about Australia was because it's on the other side of the planet. I'm assuming that tumah works both ways. The earth below the body is contaminated just as much as the earth above the corpse. So the tuma would go deep into the earth to the other side unhindered? If the grave is in Australia all the earth under the corpse would convey tumah all the way back to us? Goofy thinking?

MosheYisraeli,
I can't find a source, but I am presuming that the tuma goes only as far as the centre of the Earth (assuming it does go down).

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THIS IS DEFINATELY GOOFY THINKING!!! Does anyone remember in science class as a kid when we learned that there is a thin crust enveloping molten lava and then a core? Anything going below the crust is going to get torched, vaporized and reprocessed! Australia isn't below anymore than Israel is below Australia. The world was made round by God so that everyone could be on top, maybe? The silly way we humans equate importance and purity.

Pardon? Are you assuming that tuma has some sort of physical reality that can be burnt up?

Well, then, write a description of tuma and let's analyze it.....

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Originally posted by Yisroel Phillips:

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THIS IS DEFINATELY GOOFY THINKING!!! Does anyone remember in science class as a kid when we learned that there is a thin crust enveloping molten lava and then a core? Anything going below the crust is going to get torched, vaporized and reprocessed! Australia isn't below anymore than Israel is below Australia. The world was made round by God so that everyone could be on top, maybe? The silly way we humans equate importance and purity.

Pardon? Are you assuming that tuma has some sort of physical reality that can be burnt up?

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Well, then, write a description of tuma and let's analyze it.....

I'd rather hear your thoughts first.

Hawke,
So when was the last time you "torched" and "vaporized" tumah?

Another spiritual rising might be the story in the Gemara where it describes a bird flying overhead a Rabbi (of the time of the gemara) while he was learning Torah, would be burnt.

So apparently this also had to be right overhead, straight up.

After having read and caught up with the topic, I have two questions:

1. Regarding the prohibition of flying El Al at certain hours because of the fact that they fly over cemetaries, my question is, does one have to assume this with any flight and airline?

2. Do Kohanim need to research each flight path on any airline that they might use before flying?

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Do Kohanim need to research each flight path on any airline that they might use before flying?

Wow, such a thought is sure to set off red flags in the post-9-11-01 world, particularly given the ground to air missile terrorism discussed regarding other flights.

100 percent rob, but what can the Kohanim do instead in order to make sure that they are not going to fly over graves? This is a grave situation.

My Kohein chavrusa had mentioned at the time this issue came out that there was one suggestion to issue body bags to Kohein passengers which they could put themselves into for those parts of any flight flying over a Jewish cemetary.

I wondered at the time if it might be possible to line the floor under the seat with body bag material.

Can someone who understands the applicable halachos of how it is that a live Kohein inside a body bag would be immune from tumah....

Can you tell us a bit how this works? And whether body bag material can function as some sort of insulating barrier, despite being thinner than the air gap previously described?

I understand somewhat the physics principle about a lightning strike traveling along the outside surface of a metal shell, and occupants inside not having to worry about risk of electric shock.

Is there something about a body bag which operates in a similar fashion? And why doesn't the shell of the airplane passenger compartment have that property itself?

How about space shuttle heat shield tiles?

Quote "came out that there was one suggestion to issue body bags to Kohein passengers which they could put themselves into for those parts of any flight flying over a Jewish cemetery"

I would imagine that it would be made of a fabric that is not Mikabel Tumah, like nylon etc. Therefore, it would be a Tzemed Pusul, (a covered utensil that does not receives tumah at least from the outside.)

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fabric that is not Mikabel Tumah, like nylon etc. Therefore, it would be a Tzemed Pusul,

Thank you Rav Chaim. Assuming that this is the reason why that suggestin would have worked...

Is it the same principle if the carpetting on the floor of the passenger compartment under the seats would be made of the same material?

Or if it turned out that the pressurized cabin walls or insulation within the walls were made of such material?

Would the Kohein need to be wrapped all the way around? Or just underneath?

And finally, if anyone knows, is there some sort of minimum time duration of exposure to a beam of tumah required to take on impurity? For example under that time, one's clothing is known to reflect tumah away?

Perhaps that time might be the same standard as ... the amount of time necessary to walk 4 amos ... seen elsewhere in halacha?

And thus at a certain minimum ground speed of an airplane, a cemetary of up to a certain number of graves, could be known to be less than a tumah allowance?

Quote "Is it the same principle if the carpeting on the floor of the passenger compartment under the seats would be made of the same material?"

i would imagine not, since it would be Buttel to the airplane, plus it needs to be a utensil, like Tosfos says in the end of the 9th Perek of Shabbos, that coating a fruit with plaster won't save it from Tumah, since it's not a Keili.

Quote "Would the Kohein need to be wrapped all the way around? Or just underneath?"

Wrapped around, or else, even if the material would be a Tefach off the ground creating an Ohel, the Tumah would go in the airplane from other places and be an Ohel on him from the top.

Quote "is there some sort of minimum time duration of exposure to a beam of Tumah required to take on impurity?"

There is no time limit. Only going into a house with a Nega doesn't make your cloths your wearing Tumah right away, but your body is Tumay right away. In an Ohel HAmes, even your clothes are Tumah right away.

Dear Rav Chaim:

Thank you, that's a wonderful practical application of these principles!

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Wrapped around, or else, even if the material would be a Tefach off the ground creating an Ohel, the Tumah would go in the airplane from other places and be an Ohel on him from the top.

... In an Ohel HAmes, even your clothes are Tumah right away.

So would the whole airplane be an Ohel HaMes only for the brief instant that any part of the passenger compartment is directly over a Jewish grave?

Or any airplane that has ever flown over a Jewish grave retains its status as an Ohel HaMes, and no kohein can ever enter such an airplane?

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Or any airplane that has ever flown over a Jewish grave retains its status as an Ohel HaMes, and no kohein can ever enter such an airplane?

No that's not the case, otherwise almost every house would be forbidden to a Kohen as having once had a dead body in it.

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Originally posted by Yisroel Phillips:

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Well, then, write a description of tuma and let's analyze it.....

I'd rather hear your thoughts first.

Well, my first thought is this.......wouldn't tuma be everywhere then if you're going to give it so many thousands of miles boundary? Why stop with Australia? Why not carry this on in a direct line through the whole universe and every inch of space, planet or star that falls in the direct line is also part of it? It doesn't make sense.