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Picture of laurence shore
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Two sections of the shulchan aruch dealing with mourning are moot. We no longer wrap ourselves with the talit and cover the face as the non-jews will laugh at us and no longer turn over the beds as the non-jews think it is whitchcraft. One would think that this could be reintroduced but the ramah says one should not be machmir on a custom we no longer have.

This leaves me with a few questions.
What is wearing the hat between your eyes. I understand it is still done. To what it is related?

Sephardic mourners sit on the floor. What do visitors do, stand or sit on stools. Tiaha Baav all sepahrdim sit on floors?

Askenazic mourners sit on stools. Visitors sit whereever they find a place to sit. Is this correct? On tisha bav we sit on stools or low chairs. Any differences amoung askenazim?

Aryeh Shore
 
Posts: 548 | Location: Rechovot, Israel | Registered: February 11, 2005Report This Post
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Another reason for not overturning the bed is that our beds (or couches) are not like those of Talmudic times.

The thing with the hat is, I believe, that one should lower/turn the front brim down (or tip the hat forwards) so it covers one's eyes.

Visitors don't sit on the floor or low stools (which presumably are so low they are considered as being at floor level); they are not mourning.
 
Posts: 797 | Location: London, England | Registered: June 10, 2005Report This Post

Picture of laurence shore
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According to Shulchan Aruch, one should stand or on sit on floor. The Magen Avraham says that the mourner is mochel for askenazic jews. Don't know about sephardic jews. I have not seen anything different on shiva calls to sephardic jews. However I have seen sephardic congregations that sit on a floor mat on tisha bav.

Aryeh Shore
 
Posts: 548 | Location: Rechovot, Israel | Registered: February 11, 2005Report This Post
GY Moderator

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Which Siman in Shulchan Aruch, please, and also for the MA?

On Tisha B'Av everyone is in Aveilus.
 
Posts: 797 | Location: London, England | Registered: June 10, 2005Report This Post

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Yoreh Deah רפו רפז
thats offhand I will check it.

A.S.
 
Posts: 548 | Location: Rechovot, Israel | Registered: February 11, 2005Report This Post
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It's Siman 387:1. The Shulchan Aruch writes that the comforters only sit on the floor, but the Taz writes that the mourners can be mochel them, which is why, the Taz writes, nowadays those who visit the mouners sit on chairs and not on the ground.
 
Posts: 797 | Location: London, England | Registered: June 10, 2005Report This Post

Picture of laurence shore
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that is correct
siman 386 387
The taz in based on the drisha tur 387
Now the French Rabbis sat on stoolד on Tisha BiAV (that is the tosephot).
Now if tisha bav is the same as avelot why didn't they sit on the floor. Apparent they understood that only negative commandments were the same. Sitting on the floor is a derivative of turning over the bed which is a positive commandment.

taz OH תקנט
סעיף קטן ד
also biyur hagra. ג
 
Posts: 548 | Location: Rechovot, Israel | Registered: February 11, 2005Report This Post
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