The basic principle of Judisam that we do not hold certain beliefs is in the Torah and the Talmud as to what is considered minut. However, most of what we call beliefs are in the midrash where several opinions are given and no attempt is made to poskin midrashic opinions. All of this occurred before philosophical works became part of Judiasm. Although the Jews could get pretty worked up over the Rambam and the Kabballah or learning "secular" studies or devote ones time to splitting hairs in the Talmud, nobody was burnt at the stake and nobody put anyone in Cherem or accused them of being minim. We are only concerned that the people do the mitzvot as outlined in the various halachic codes. Why one does the Mitzvot has never been a reason for throwing someone out of Judiasm.
The main exception being the Gra putting the Chassidim in Cherem. However this must be understood in the aftermath of Shabtai Zvi and extreme measures were necessary to restore some sort of order after the mass hysteria of Shabtai Zvi.

To repeat, I use to say that today nearly anything is acceptable (astrology, magic spells) except you can't believe the messiah died and is coming back (One always can't be right).

The principles which are universially excepted, HaShem created the world from nothing, the oral and written torah were given at Sinai, there is only one divinity, ressurrection of the dead and reward and punishment is a rather short list. Nearly everything else is up for discussion and it has been the vitality of our people to date that they are willing to tolerate a wide variety of opinions. This enabled us to reinvent ourselves several times. We are again in a period where we are reinventing ourselves as most of the world jewry finds themselves in a different place than their ancestors. I believe in tolerance for all ideas and certainly not excluding a group of Shomrei Mitzvot jews from the rest of us. As a scientist, I do not appreciate practices and ideas which deny reality but as a Jew I would never say that such absurd activities means that they are not religious jews.

Aryeh Shore

Teffillin on Choel HaMoed
My understanding is that the Jews of Eretz Yisrael never wore teffillin on Choel HaMoed because they didn't work on Choel HaMoed. As for the Askenazim, those who still put on Tefillin do so very quietly. I seem to recall a shilah if they are saying the bracha so quietly if it is valid.

The Pachad Yitchak is an encyclopedic work by R. Yitchak Lamperti, 18th century Italy. He was influenced by the Italian renaisance and wanted to publish an halachic journal in addition to writing an encyclopedia which was a renassaince idea. He was also a physician and did experiments to determine if the lungs really were directly connected to the heart like Rashi describes. (I have described this in detail in one of my brilliant but obscure articles.) He wrote letters to all the yeshivot to repeat the experiments but they wrote back that they will take his word for it.
He was contemporary of the Ramchal.

Aryeh Shore

quote:

The principles which are universially excepted, HaShem created the world from nothing, the oral and written torah were given at Sinai, there is only one divinity, ressurrection of the dead and reward and punishment is a rather short list. Nearly everything else is up for discussion

This would not seem the case from Bava Basra 75a (as paraphrased by Kollel Iyun Hadaf) 1. (R. Yochanan): Hash-m will bring gems and pearls 30 Amos by 30 Amos, and carve out a hole 10 Amos by 20 Amos, and erect them at the gates of Yerushalayim.
2. A Talmid jeered: Today we don't find gems the size of a small egg, will such giant gems be found?!
3. Shortly after this, he was on a boat (Ya'avetz - used names of Hash-m,) and saw angels sawing holes in gems, exactly like the dimensions that R. Yochanan taught. He asked what they are for; they answered, Hash-m will put them by the gates of Yerushalayim in the future. He told R. Yochanan that his teaching was correct.
4. R. Yochanan: Had you not seen it, you would not believe it?! You mock the words of Chachamim!
i. R. Yochanan put his eyes on the Talmid, he became a mound of bones.

Laurence,
You are right, no one is to judge another Jew's avodat Hashem and no one knows the intention of his heart! Moreover, in the same way as "today (as chazal say in their time!) there are no idol worshippers but only people who perform deeds they do not understand by rote", so too, today (in our times) most people repeat words and say things by rote. If this is the way you understand it, the fads for astrology, magic, holy waters and the such are as meaningless as someone saying Tehillim without understanding, just for the "segula" he attributes to this reading (see the formulation of the Yehi Ratzon… at the end of certain prints of Tehillim and also Shir Hashirim!).

You say that 13 basic principles of our faith (of which you mention only a few) leaves "Nearly everything else is up for discussion and it has been the vitality of our people to date that they are willing to tolerate a wide variety of opinions".
Please tell us what you include in "nearly everything else" which is left open for discussion, and let's talk about that.

I totally agree with your statement and neither would I "as a Jew, ever say that such absurd activities means that they are not religious jews." But so too, Christians who believe in Jesus and pray to him because they "know" he hears their prayers and has the power to save them, are also fervently "religious". So the Torah, and very much so Chazal, teach us to make a difference between ideas and deeds which undermine the basic principles of our faith – and these are forbidden – and those superstitions which do not alter our faith, and Chazal do draw the line between things done by way of appeasing fears which they permit (like wearing a Kamea – even on Shabbat dafka because since there is nothing to it, it is not called "carrying"!), and things which they forbid (like whispering verses of the Torah to cure a wound, or imitating the Gentiles in their clothes as much as in their manners and beliefs).

quote:

Originally posted by Rav Chaim:
Bava Basra 75a

Those Midrashim are Mashalim. Please, if you know, tell us what this one stands for?

Thanks!

Quote "Those Midrashim are Mashalim"

That cannot be read into the gemarah. If it was all a Mashul, then why did the student doubt Rebbi Yochanon? It is quite simple that Rav Yochanan meant quite literal what he said and the scoffer was a Rasha.

Quote "You are right, no one is to judge another Jew's avodat Hashem and no one knows the intention of his heart! "

Why not? The person's Avodas Hashem needs to be in compliance to true Torah, and if it's not, people have a right to question it. they also don't have to accept every forced answer whether it fits or not.

After being away for a week and catching up on some of the reading on the GY, I came across this thread where some character is actually claiming that he knows more about Jewish thoughts than the Vilna Ga'on and the Chafetz Chaim. This claim doesn't come from a good understanding of the whole Shas or anything. But, get this,he actually "disproved" the Ga'on :rolleye: by reading the first sentence of Sh'ma (that probably just slipped the Ga'on's mind :rolleye

Of course nobody can prove otherwise, since, according to him (get this) the WHOLE SHAS IS A MASHUL (parable.)

Then he wants to hide behind a supposed "clause" that there is FREEDOM OF RELIGION in Yidishkeit and nobody can (Chas V'Shalom) question anyone's ideas, nobody how dubious they may be.

I will not attempt to claim I know the Zohar, since I've never studied it, (I subscribe to the Chavas Yair's ruling that most of us are Onussim that we can't learn it) Also, I would not even assume that what is written in this thread is a proper representation of what is said in the Zohar. (Since those who are quoting don't seem to reach the Torah scholarship that the Rama says shouldn't attempt learning them) At worst, they could be gleaned from an Apikors's book on it.

But the attack on the Zohar reminds me of the Min's question in Sanhedrin 39a (as paraphrased by Kollel Iyun Hadaf)

(m) A heretic (to R. Gamliel): You say that the Shechinah dwells among any 10 Yisraelim - how many Shechinos are there?

We see in many Chazals that Hashem takes on many faces. Rashi by the first commandment points out that Hashem had to point out that he was the same that took us out of Egypt because he appeared differently there. We see that RAshi all over makes a difference in the difference Shemos. that Hashem is referring to the Middos Harachamim and Elokim the Midas Hadin (unless you subscribe to the P and J theory since they were said by "professors")

Why does Hashem do this. This of course is going into complex ideas, and those who are not holding by it should not be going into it, thus the ban on Kabbalah for those who aren't experts in Shas and poskim. But to give some kind of understanding, Rav Chaim Voloziner in Nefesh Hachaim (excuse me if you don't hold of him) says that humans cannot comprehend Hashem in his completeness and cannot relate to him. Thus Hashem appear to us in ways we can understand. thus the difference appearances are not for himself, but for us, to relate to all the aspects.

I once heard that when Reform first arose in Germany, they didn't dare to chuck out the siddur.
They just attacked prayers based on the Zohar, such as "brich shmeih" recited when taking out the Torah.

Once they succeeded in convincing people that such prayers are not worth the time it takes to say them, they proceeded to perform more grisly amputations on the siddur... and the continuation of the story is known to us all.

Dear Sheva,
Even if you have "reasons" as to why you may think that the Zohar is not "Jewish" you cannot ignore the fact that the Beis Yosef, Shulchan Aruch, Magen Avraham, Gra, R' Chaim Volozhin, Chafitz Chiam etc. etc. all quote the Zohar. If you do not have a rishon or a achron to stand behind there is nothing to talk about. Our mesorah is found in the Yeshivot and you will not find this type of learning done there. I am not negating "the search for the truth" but we need to understand what league we are in.

quote:

They just attacked prayers based on the Zohar, such as "brich shmeih" recited when taking out the Torah.

Would you agree that one who aspires to daven with a minyan but rarely gets to do so and thus not by choice never gets to recite this beautiful prayer is in a different category than those who as you said amputated it from their siddur by choice?

Still there may well be a spiritual consequence to one who never has the opportunity to recite it, or many of the other prayers which can only be said with a minyan. Is there any Torah wisdom are mystical discussions about the specific consequences associated with:

• Brich Shmeih
  
• Other prayers requiring a minyan
  
• Other prayers amputated away from Jews who don't even know what they are missing in their siddur

quote:

If you do not have a rishon or a achron to stand behind there is nothing to talk about.

I have. They were called on this forum heretics!!! And I presented my arguments. The answer was, who do you think you are?

quote:

Is there any Torah wisdom are mystical discussions about the specific consequences associated with:

Brich Shmeih

Other prayers requiring a minyan

Other prayers amputated away from Jews who don't even know what they are missing in their siddur

Some siddurim have, after morning prayers, little pieces of midrashim to recite, that are meant to be "in place of" key prayers that need a minyan.

In Nefesh Shimshon, Siddur HaTefillah, Rav Shimshon Pincus zatzal writes about the fact that davening with a minyan enables a person's prayers to ascend even though the person might not be worthy of this on his own. Rav Pincus then mentions that the Arizal recommended that before prayers, one should accept upon oneself to truly love every Jew as oneself. Rav Pincus suggests that this has the power to bind a person's prayers to the prayers of the Jewish people as a whole, creating a similar effect to praying with a minyan.
This will not enable a person to say kaddish and kedusha, etc, of course!!
But it surely won't hurt either.

There are many posts here. Which rishon or a achron did you bring?

Oh good. I'm glad it wasn't only me who couldn't find one.

It was mentioned, actually, that the Rambam never quotes the Zohar, and that he takes a philosophical rather than a kabbalistic approach.
This is not surprising, though. The Zohar was discovered after the Rambam's time. In his time, aristotelian philosophy and theology was all the rage, and the Rambam brilliantly explained the Torah's outlook in the terms current in his time.

Well, certainly none of us ever called the Rambam a heretic, so that can't be what he is referring to

Quote "Would you agree that one who aspires to daven with a minyan but rarely gets to do so and thus not by choice never gets to recite this beautiful prayer is in a different category than those who as you said amputated it from their siddur by choice?"
Most definitely. I don't know why you even have a Sufaik.

quote:

"Would you agree that one who aspires to daven with a minyan but rarely gets to do so and thus not by choice never gets to recite this beautiful prayer is in a different category than those who as you said amputated it from their siddur by choice?"
Most definitely. I don't know why you even have a Sufaik.

First of all,
I agree with Rav Chaim's comment.
Second of all, I will try to look up some of those midrashim.
I assume that you say "Keil Melech ne'eman" before reciting the three paragraphs of the Shema. This brings the number of words up to 248, replacing the three words you miss without a minyan. These 248 words correspond to the 248 limbs and organs of a person. But I assume I am not telling you anything you don't know already.

Otherwise, to the best of my paultry knowledge, Kabbalah does not view the various parts of prayer as corresponding to various physical or spritual parts of the person. Rather, the various sections of the order of tefillah are viewed as corresponding to various levels in the system of the four worlds.

Thus, there is no reason to think that davening without prayers that need a minyan will leave a person in a state that may be compared to an "amputee".

This metaphor is quite apropos to someone who fails to perform certain mitzvos, however, as the Chafetz Chaim was fond of pointing out.

As for what we all accept, most recent discussion has centered on the Rambam's thirteen principles. For example, one principle is HaShem has no form. The Ravid disagrees. One principle is that Moshe was the greatest prophet and there will never be a prophet as great as him, some think the Meshiach will be the greatest prophet.
The point is that we do not have a dogma for metaphysics. There have been many challenges to Rabbinic Judiasm. When we had some sort of central leadership, these challenges were met by our leaders. The Rabbis of the talmud debated the pagans, the christians and the Tzadukim. Rav Saadiah Goan debated the Karaites. The Rambam provided tools against the Kariates and the Moslems. Unfortunately, there was no one to stop the messianic movement of Shavtai Tvi and the only tool given was to just stop studying the zohar. No one could stem the rise of the enlightment, mass conversion of the Jews to christianity and the rise of the Reform movement. In any event, following all of these attacks against Rabbinic Judiasm, it survived and thrived and in response to each challenge, new books and ideas have come forth, i.e, we engaged our challenges with writing, not force or excommunication. The second mechanism of hunkering down and total exclusion (intellectual or physical ghettoization) has also been used but failed consistently in the 18th, 19th and early 20th century. It is impossible to explain how the Jews survived this long doing more or less the same mitzvot as given as Sinai. Unlike other groups which maintain a long tradition, the Jews have been in the center of History, constantly exposed to new ideas held by the majority of the population where they lived. As Mr. Toynbee said, the Jews can't exist because they violate every principle of History.

As for how to analyze aggadit material in the Talmud, the Rabbis spoke in a sort of code for discussing what we call philosophy today. There were many reasons for this. One, they often couldn't say what they wanted because of Roman, Christian and Persian spies. In the time of early gemara, the Jews were under extreme persecution by the Romans who did not appreciate revolts. Secondly, they did not want to discuss esoteric subjects in a way that the common man would understand. (From a latter time, when the Ramban wanted to discuss a difficult topic, he wrote it in an alphabetic code.)
For an excellent analysis of this sort of aggadah www.eretzhemdah.org is running an excellent series in their parshat Hashavua. R. Hochman analysis of the Gems of Kadkod in the cave of Lod would probably be relevant to gemara on the gems.

Aryeh Shore

quote:

The point is that we do not have a dogma for metaphysics

I think that the reason for this is that we place our primary faith in what we are taught by the Torah itself, rather than resorting to the abstract principles of faith that characterise certain Western religions.

Since the Torah comes both Written and Oral, we perforce are totally dependent on the teachings and interpretations of the leading Rabbis of the generations.

So when the reliability of these leading Rabbis is questioned, it sort of shakes up the whole edifice. That is what raises people's blood pressure, I think.