I'll stick with the technical points.
1. Not all Jews say Brich She. The Spanish-Portugese Jews say a prayer in Spanish.
2. There are two problems in getting to 248 for the Shemah.
Some tosephot felt it was wrong to repeat the last three words, as you are making up a sentence in the torah which does not exist.
Some toesphot objected to saying or kel melech rachaman) before the Shemah as it was a mafseek. (Interuption in the real prayer.)
I believe there is a system of just saying amen after the prayer.
Now where does someone suggest that what appears in the siddur that a Yahid (a single person) should say kel melech rachaman as opposed to the whole congregation, I have never found. Afterall, why don't just repeat the last three words yourself. It seems to be some sort of hodgepodge between the two systems.


Aryeh Shore

quote:

Some siddurim have, after morning prayers, little pieces of midrashim to recite, that are meant to be "in place of" key prayers that need a minyan.

These midrashim appear on p. 124 of Siddur tefillas kol peh, nusach ashkenaz, published by Eshkol

Dr. Shore, you do a lot of original research!

The Rema, in Orach Chayyim 61: 3, says that an individual should say Keil Melech Ne'eman. He also mentions a more complicated system for making up the three words.

About Spanish-portugese Jews: I think that most of them mixed in pretty much with the other sefardim/eidot hamizrach, hundreds of years ago. Are there any communities today that still recite this spanish prayer, or does it appear in any siddur? I don't question that it once existed, but the Sefaradim of today are very much in favor of reciting Brich shmeih. (Although they generally follow the ruling of the Chida, and recite it only on Shabbat and Rosh Chodesh.)

quote:

quote:

the two reasons given by the mishah berurah for removing tefillin before mussaf of rosh chodesh would apply to chol hamoed as well.

If the reason were the same, its not clear why it would become manifest in different instructions.

I am referencing an Arstscroll Ashkenaz siddur which has Hallel on page 632/633 and Mussaf Shemoneh Esrei for Rosh Chodesh on page 644/645.

On page 632 the instructions read:

Those wearing tefillin on Chol HaMoed remove them at this point before reciting Hallel.


On page 644 the instructions read:

Tefillin must be removed before Mussaf. (It is preferable that they be removed after Kaddish). This should be done quickly and the tefillin should not be rolled up in order not to cause undue delay between Kaddish and Mussaf.


I think I have learned that the quickly removing also implies not putting the hand tefillin into the intermediate state before taking off the head tefillin.

Is one who wears tefillin on Chol HaMoed supposed to remove them quickly before Hallel?

But my main point is that since Hallel is recited on Rosh Chodesh with tefillin and the Chol HaMoed Hallel is without tefillin, wouldn't we think that the rule for removing them would likely be for somewhat different reasons?

Why do we leave tefillin on for Hallel on Rosh Chodesh?

On page 64/65 of the siddur is an instruction that Psalm 100 Mizmor L'Sodah is omitted on Erev Yom Kippur, Erev Pesach, and Chol Hamoed Pesach.

This is a further indication that Rosh Chodesh and Chol HaMoed Pesach are treated differently in halacha.

It would seem it was properly said today, a weekday Rosh Chodesh.

I would also ask why this is different betwen Chol HaMoed Pesach and Chol HaMoed Succos.

1. I prayed in a spanish portuguese shul which said the prayer in Spanish. There are only a handful of Spanish Portuguese synagogues in the US and in weird places. Montgomery Alabama, Philadelphia, PA, Highland Park NJ and Seatle NJ besides the NY city congregations.

2. Thank you for the quote on the siman. Well I see where the siddur got it for an individual but the fifteen vavs seems to be ignored. It seems the Archronim were trying to synthesize both of the early traditions, e.g. the MB says to try to say the bracha with the Shaliah Tzibur or let him finish first and answer amen, but you shouldn't do this in other situations. So on one hand he is following the tradition not to answer amen before the Shema because it is a Maphsek at the same time he approves of individuals saying Kel Melech Neeman.

3. The movement to introduce kabbalistic prayers in the sidur was largely successful. The only remnants of resistance we have are the Askenazic Jews who insist on saying Kabbalat Shabat from the Bimah rather than the Amud. I have suggested that the Askenazim saying Mizmor lyom HaShabat after musaf when it should be said after Sharchit. Exactly what to make of Nusah Sefard is not clear to me. These were Askenazic Jews who did not want to adapt Nusach Ari or the Sephardic nusach but still wanted to include some of the phrases.

4. Now for putting really esoteric material into the sidur, I see that R. Ovadia excludes the sections on reincarnation to trees and the father, mother, son and holy spirit section that appears in some edot mizrach siddurim while he does bring reincarnation to people. I don't know if he was trying to make a point or not.

Aryeh Shore

quote:

On page 64/65 of the siddur is an instruction that Psalm 100 Mizmor L'Sodah is omitted on Erev Yom Kippur, Erev Pesach, and Chol Hamoed Pesach.

This is a further indication that Rosh Chodesh and Chol HaMoed Pesach are treated differently in halacha.

It would seem it was properly said today, a weekday Rosh Chodesh.

I would also ask why this is different betwen Chol HaMoed Pesach and Chol HaMoed Succos.

All those times when mizmor lesoda is omitted are because they are times when the eating of chametz (or anything at all) is limited.
Since the korban todah brings along with it 10 loaves of chametz bread, which must be eaten up within a limited time, the korban was never brought on erev pesach, and certainly not during pesach.
But on Succos, those chametz loaves pose no problem at all, and that was actually a great time for a korban todah to be brought.

If I am not mistaken, Sefaradim recite that mizmor even on days that ashkenazim skip it, due to its value as pesukei dezimra (i.e. independent of its value as being in place of the korban todah.)

quote:

Seatle NJ

Actually, I have a sefardi friend from that shul! He tried to teach me a spanish song for the shabbos table once, but I didn't catch on. I guess there still are remnants of european Sefaradim, I think mostly from Saloniki, Greece.
It is known that HaRav Ovadiah is much more peshat-oriented than the primarily Ben Ish Chai tradition that was prevalent among the Sefaradim (and still is,to a lesser extent.) There is a story about how the Ben Ish Chai once appeared to him in a dream, and encouraged him to continue on his path...
I am not familiar with the sections of the siddur that HaRav Ovadiah was opposed to.

quote:

Originally posted by laurence shore:
As for what we all accept, most recent discussion has centered on the Rambam's thirteen principles. For example, one principle is HaShem has no form. The Ravid disagrees.

Aryeh Shore

Sefer HaIkkarim has a different version of the Ra'avad in which he writes that certainly the truth is that Hashem has no form, but one who makes an honest mistake based of misreading various verses cannot be ruled a "min".

It should be pointed out that one also loses his share in Olam HaBa'ah for denying even a single line of Torah She'Baal Peh and for insulting scholars as per the Gemora Chelek. If the Zohar is authentic, it would be considered part of the Torah She'Baal Peh. I wouldn't want to play around too much with this topic.

quote:

Originally posted by Rabbi Peretz Moncharsh:If the Zohar is authentic, it would be considered part of the Torah She'Baal Peh. I wouldn't want to play around too much with this topic.

IF. And if not...?

Sheva:
I wish to point out that the name of this forum is "Beis Medrash".
It is not the way of discussion in a beis medrash to challenge primary sources without an acknowledged and authoritative source.
I think that Rabbi Mitterhoff, Director of Global Yeshiva, has already made this point to you.

Quote "As for how to analyze aggadit material in the Talmud, the Rabbis spoke in a sort of code for discussing what we call philosophy today."

This, at best, is speculative. It is probably, like the Gra says, for Kabbalah reasons, as we'll point out.

Quote "There were many reasons for this. One, they often couldn't say what they wanted because of Roman, Christian and Persian spies."

There are a lot of quite a bit of anti-Goyish bits in the Halachic part of the Gemarah, which they didn't seem so apprehensive to put into the Talmud, so I think we can rule this reason wrong.

Quote "Secondly, they did not want to discuss esoteric subjects in a way that the common man would understand."

Why? (This would fit in well if it's Kabbalistic in nature, this we see that Chazal was very reluctant for the average person to learn about.)

Quote "For an excellent analysis of this sort of aggadah www.eretzhemdah.org is running an excellent series in their parshat Hashavua."
When you say "this sort of Agaddah" you are admitting that not all Aguddah falls into that category. So how do you define which Agadita falls into which. (You're not going to claim that Rabbi Akiva didn't really marry Kalva Savua's daughter?)

Quote "R. Hochman analysis of the Gems of Kadkod in the cave of Lod would probably be relevant to gemara on the gems."

Its hard for me to wade through the whole website. If you could, just paraphrase how it would answer why the student got punished if there is no dogma besides the 13 principles.

quote:

All those times when mizmor lesoda is omitted are because they are times when the eating of chametz (or anything at all) is limited.

I read through this psalm carefully a few times today and I don't see the connection to eating, or loaves, or chometz. What is the connection?

quote:

I read through this psalm carefully a few times today and I don't see the connection to eating, or loaves, or chometz. What is the connection?

Well,
I envy anyone who reads a psalm carefully. especially a few times!
Mizmor lesodah means a song for a todah, and a todah is a thanksgiving offering. Although the psalm does not tell us the laws of a thanksgiving offering, the Torah does tell us that it is accompanied by 40 loaves, 10 of which are chametz.
When we recite this psalm in pesukei dezimra, it is considered in a certain sense as if we had offered a thanksgiving offering. That's where the chametz comes in.
I am not saying anything "esoteric", this is all from the mishnah berurah and very basic sources...

Also, I've seen from the Drashas Haran (Drash 5) that proves from that Gemarah about the scoffing student that anyone who denies the Agada of Chazal is an Apikores and has no part in the world to come.

quote:

Originally posted by Rav Chaim:
Also, I've seen from the Drashas Haran (Drash 5) that proves from that Gemarah about the scoffing student that anyone who denies the Agada of Chazal is an Apikores and has no part in the world to come.

Does this mean all aggados Chazal are to be taken literally?

Quote "Does this mean all aggados Chazal are to be taken literally?"

No, but it means that you can't just believe the 13 principles and everything else can go to pooh, as was advanced here by some people.

quote:

Originally posted by Rabbi Globus:
(In the land of Israel, the custom is not to put on tefillin during chol hamoed, following the Gra, Ba'al Shem Tov and Arizal.)

This applies to everyone who lives there, even someone who moves there and has the minhag to put on tefillin on chol hamoed prior to moving? Or is it the majority of people in Israel who has this minhag?

quote:

This applies to everyone who lives there, even someone who moves there and has the minhag to put on tefillin on chol hamoed prior to moving?

If and when you move, or if you already did (in which case, welcome!) ask your rabbi.
But I will tell you, as someone who tried to put on tefillin here on chol hamoed, it was a harrowing experience.

You see, Rabbi Akiva Eiger holds that you can fulfill both views by putting them on with a condition that if there is no mitzvah, then they are considered mere ornaments, and you have no intention to "add on to the mitzvos".
My (american) rabbi held that way.

One day, a little before sunset, I was walking around Jerusalem and it dawned on me-- I had not put on tefillin yet!! I rushed into a yeshiva where people were learning and asked for tefillin. Well, in spite of all my learned explanations, they were very reluctant to give me tefillin.

I don't think that this practice is even known in the land of Israel. It seems quite "foreign" to people.

quote:

Originally posted by Rabbi Globus:

quote:

This applies to everyone who lives there, even someone who moves there and has the minhag to put on tefillin on chol hamoed prior to moving?

If and when you move, or if you already did (in which case, welcome!) ask your rabbi.

Haven't moved yet, when I do, אי"ה, of course I'll have to do that.

quote:

But I will tell you, as someone who tried to put on tefillin here on chol hamoed, it was a harrowing experience.

What kind of experience? What about respect for Minhagim? [I heard that the letters - מנהג is the same letters of the word גהנם just backwards.]

quote:

You see, Rabbi Akiva Eiger holds that you can fulfill both views by putting them on with a condition that if there is no mitzvah, then they are considered mere ornaments, and you have no intention to "add on to the mitzvos".
My (american) rabbi held that way.

Where did the minhag come from?

quote:

One day, a little before sunset, I was walking around Jerusalem and it dawned on me-- I had not put on tefillin yet!! I rushed into a yeshiva where people were learning and asked for tefillin. Well, in spite of all my learned explanations, they were very reluctant to give me tefillin.

Is the harrowing experience? And why would anyone be reluctant to help another yid, no matter what the minhag is?!

quote:

I don't think that this practice is even known in the land of Israel. It seems quite "foreign" to people.

Why foreign?

Regarding tefillin in the land of Israel on chol hamoed: I shared my experience, which showed that the minhag of putting on tefillin on such days is relatively unknown here, even in yeshivos.

I think that people regard it as strange and foreign because it never entered their mind that anyone would even think of putting on tefillin then, unless they happened to notice the relatively obscure Rema that speaks of it.
The minhag seems simply unknown here.
Maybe someone else can share their experience or views on the matter...