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Picture of laurence shore
Posted
Since this is a senstive topic, I thought I should move it to Bet Medresh. It is sensitive as many passages describing the status of non-jews in jewish are frequently cited on anti-semitic websites.

Messechet Avodah Zarah, contains a number of laws which descriminate against non-jews. Some of the laws are meant to decrease contact between jews and non-jews, e.g. pat akum. However the laws of not saving the life of a non-jews, having dealings with them three days before their holidays, giving them presents, and allowing them to live in the land of Israel are directed against the pagans themselves.

Unfortunately our sources have been censored and we can not be sure of what was actually written (with the exception of the Meiri). The achronim deal with the problem extensively. As for Islam, one can find sources that they are not avodah zarah and it permitted to give them gifts and to sell them land in Israel. As for christians, you can find authorities that prostestants which do not have idols are not avodah zarah. We have the same problem with the catholics as the moslems and some protestant groups, we don't like religious statuary (catholic theologians also aren't that enthusiastic about them). We use a separate categeory which the tosephot and the Ramah (in permitting stam yayin if necessary), that the goyim today really aren't idol worshippers, they don't believe the idols do anything and they are simply following their ancestors ways so the laws of not selling them things for their holidays are moot. A futher argument is that we do not do things to encourage hatred for the jews among the nations.
Now I haven't seen anyone claim that the Hindus or Buddists aren't idol worshippers. Like my Rav says, it is one thing to argue that the Moslems who live in Israel have the status of ger toshav, it is another thing to import Buddists from Thailand to live in Israel.

Aryeh Shore
 
Posts: 548 | Location: Rechovot, Israel | Registered: February 11, 2005Report This Post

Picture of Avi d'Israeli
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The Rambam is quite clear about the different nations in relation to avoda zara in Mishne Torah. Muslims are not in avoda zara but that does not mean they can own land in Israel. Halachically, only Jews can own land in Israel...if you remember it was divided according to tribes and families....and an Arab does not belong to the tribe.

Christianity is clearly avoda zara. However, there are many Christians who do not understand or even know that theirs is avoda zara. The Rambam goes to explain the differences between being in avoda zara and not knowing it and how we as Jews should relate to that. Bhuddusts, Hindus and other nations are in avoda zara. We basically cannot buy consummables from them and we may not sell them land in Israel either. They may not live in Israel. Muslims may live in Israel as geyr toshav. But such a status is conferred by a beit din after appropriate inquiry and investigation. Muslims may pour wine for Jews. Christians and others may not.

About idol worship itself; Most today are not in "overt" idol worship, they are just parroting what their ancestors passed down to them. Well, that makes the case even more compelling for Jews to be extra careful. Avoda zara is more serious for Jews than for non-Jews.
 
Posts: 901 | Location: Olam Haze | Registered: October 20, 2005Report This Post
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