I have a good Gematria:

The Ba'al Shem Tov often had his name shortened to BSH"T - with a gematria of 311 (beis, shin, tes). This is the same as "basodeh" - in the field; where he spent most of his time dancing and the like. It is also the same as "sh'gogoh" - mistake.

Draw your own conclusions.

Leiser

P.S. Is anyone here actually impressed by gematrias?

Shalom, Leiser
I find them interesting. i mean look at what you did with the Baal Shem Tov name. you used his accromy BeSh't to mean field which we all know he like to pray there. as well he appeared to be a mistake by those who dwell outside his camp.

Yes, but is it merely a coincidence? In addition, you seem to be adding words. The word sh'gogoh, if anything, whould mean he was a mistake period, nothing to do with "those outside his camp." But at the end of the day, anyone can make any numbers add up, surely?

Leiser

as far as the topic goes, gematrya is a known method of remez in the torah mentioned in the rishonim already, it does not mean that anything that has equal gematriya means the same but rather that they saw an intrinsic connection between two ideas and saw the gimatriyo as an expression of that, today many who want a bon-mot use a gimatriyo to open a speach, ok i can (just barely) accept that. however there are those who do not bother putting their energy into learning torah and instead compose gimatriya's. against those I agree with leiser, that it impresses no one (though on that specific topic, besides for the fact that I doube the ba'al shem tov ever reffered to him self by such a title - he was way to busy with LEARNING and helping the poor to bother himself with titles (where do you get that he would dance in the fields? you are confusing the besh"t with the ariza"l), even those who did refer to him by that title and acronym would use it as Besh"t= bet, ayin, shin, tet, = 381 meaning? nothing that I am aware of anyway

quote:

as far as the topic goes, gematrya is a known method of remez in the torah mentioned in the rishonim already,

Actually, it's in the Gemarah in quite a few places
Nazir 5a that Stam Niziros is 30 days as the Gematria of Yihyeh

Gitin 88a that Hashem did us a favor and kicking us out 2 years earlier than the Gematria of Vinoshnatam (852) (I heard the Steipler brings a Raya from this Gemarah that if you're off by one it's OK, thus Hashem had to be Makdim Davka 2 years)

Shabbos 97b (also 70a) that Rebbi learns the 39 Melochos from Eleh Hadvarim Eleh is gematria of 36 and Dvarim connotes 2 and the Heh adds another, add it all up to 39

Eiruvin 65a that both wine and secret (Yayin and Sod) are Gematria of 70, so when wine goes in then out comes the secrets.

Sukka 28a and BB 134a when it mentions that R"Y ben Zacai never left any Torah topic, one of the topics it mentions is Gematria

thanks,
at the time of day/night that i become free to log on/ post my memory isnt working that (not that i'd have remembered all of those anyway , gitin and shabbos i sort of remembered but was too tired to confirm and i was sure about the rishonim so just left it at that, but thanks for supporting my point.
i see now also there have been replies to some of my other posts, in a similar vein and I hope to be able tp comment when i am more alert.
hatzlacha

obviously gematria can be coincidental...such as "hashadchanim" is the gematria "ain lehem chelek b olam habah"....work it out... never mind the coincidental discoveries of a buchor's dismay...may i be zoche to throw out this coincidence!

quote:

gematria can be coincidental

My understanding is that there is no such thing as "coincidence". Everything we stumble upon or come across is placed upon our path for a reason. Consequently, it seems to me that the problem with a particular gematria a person "comes upon" is not necessarily with a particular gematria itself but with discerning the depth of its connection to reality. In other words, a person comes upon a gematrical equivalence either through studying (it's someone else's gematria, be that someone else an ignoramus or a sage) or though his or her own study. In both of these cases, just like with the madregot, the "validity" and "meaning" (relationship to rectified reality) of the gematria will be dependent upon similar factors as the validity and meaning of a madregah, wouldn't it?

Also, I think gematria are useful, not only for teasing out connections to seemingly diverse ideas within Torah, but as tool for learning about oneself. The gematriot one "comes up with" can provide a person with a powerful tool for analyzing where a person's "unconcsious mind is at". In other words, it is a good tool for self-evaluation (and purification) too.

quote:

(Eruvin 65a) that both wine, yayin, and secret, sod, have a gematria of 70, so that when wine goes in, a secret comes out

I am familiar with this well established gematria. No doubt it is more complex than it seems at first glance. Likely there is a whole teaching built up around it that I am not familiar with. Nevertheless, gematriot are fun, yes?

This is my thinking on it. Wine represents binah - actively building understanding sort of. Sod (secret) is integral to the word yesod, which is among other things, an external aspect of knowledge (where that unknown - a secret - becomes known - knowledge). So, sure, if one actively applies oneself to acquiring understanding, one's knowledge will grow in consequence.

That's an easy level of meaning one could come up with to that gematria.

Of course, I understand that this is much too simplistic to be the end of it. There is a whole process of how one acquires new insight, knowledge and understanding. It's really amazing to learn about. So much to discover. Sometimes a person just has to float with it, and be content to just enjoy the taste, because it cannot all be taken into the mind all at once. I do value my mind, even as I would like to bring it all down all at once. But, I know that to do that would be unwise.

Any suggestions?

quote:

(Eruvin 65a) that both wine, yayin, and secret, sod, have a gematria of 70, so that when wine goes in, a secret comes out

From a story that I remember reading in the book “Yerushalayim Shel Maalah” or, “The Heavenly City”. If anyone remembers this story, please correct the details of it, as I’m writing this from memory.

There is a story about a man who was a hidden tzaddik, and kept it secret for all of his life that he was a Talmid Chocham and that he knew a lot of Torah. One year on Purim, the Rabbi of the town, who apparently knew what this person was, and the Torah contained in him, called on this person to drink some wine, and offered him cup after cup, until he was full of wine, i.e. drunk.

The Rav then proceeded to call on him, and in the man’s drunkenness, he started jumping on the table. And the Rav said to him that he should say some words of Torah, and the man said, that he didn’t know any. [If I remember correctly] the Rabbi said, I am the Rabbi of the town and I command you to say a D’var Torah, and with that, and from the wine in him, he started a back and forth dialogue with the Rabbi on various topics of Torah.

According to the story, the man was 70 years old, and passed away that year.