When the news first "leaked" out I was dismayed and was about to go militant when one chacham told me it's more complicated than we realize. After all Yaacov has been negotiating with Esav from the very beginning. Esav has been bigger and Yaacov has had to offer gifts and tip toe around. With that in mind; should we part with the property?

Moshe, do you have a link to that info that I could read?

Alex;
Here is a link;
http://www.isfsp.org/zion.html

Moshe, this is horrible. Granted, it's better than letting it fall back to the pre-1967 situation, but still. What's especially alarming is that, while the Toledo synagogue is extremely important to the Jewish culture, it is not comparable to the centrality of Mt. Zion to all the Jews. JPII would not do it. This present Pope is more on the right-wing side of the Catholicism, and that's exactly what their "prophecy" is: to support Israel up to the moment of the rupture and then all jews who did not join them would vanish in a heavenly fire (I heard former US President Jimmy Carter on NPR a week or so ago; he was explaining the position of the Xtian right). And they are upset that we agree to receive their support for Eretz Israel, but do not agree to fulfill the second part of what they call the prophecy of the rupture, which holds a central place in Xtianity, and that is to convert or die: they seem to be saying: it's the end of the world; the sky is falling; let's make if fall sooner; let's get all the holy sites away from the Jews: these sites were intended for the gentiles and other lies like that.

I personally have no idea about what's going on in Israeli President's mind, but (based on the obviously incomplete information that I possess) it is clear to me that Mt.Zion should remain Jewish and should not be handed over to any other religious entity, not even in exchange for the synagogue in Toledo, Alexandria, and Elephantine Island, taken together...

Something else is not clear to me: is Israel expanding its property (real estate) to the European continent? Is Toledo now a part of Israel? If not, then why trade a piece of Israel for a piece of a place where we lived and were chased out of? What's next? Exchange the Tomb of the Patriarchs for the Vilno synagogue? Trade the Kotel for the synagogue in Krakow?

Alex;
The whole exercise is nuts! As you know, the Jews who were massacred or kicked out of Toledo during the the 1300s prayed facing Jerusalem and their desire was to someday be there. Now they would be made to exchange Jerusalem for Toledo. There are no Jews in Toledo today and the old synagogue is an empty delapidated shell.

What bothers me even more is that lots of bribe money has exchanged hands and government officials look at it as business. They figure Christian tourism would soar and bring lots of money to the government coffers. They are thinking the same of the newly discovered "3rd century church" on the prison grounds at Massada. They are actually thinking of moving the prison to make it a Christian shrine of sorts.

Any knowledgeable experts will tell you Chrsitianity was only being fashioned in the 3rd century and that there could not have been any "Christian" churches at that time. But who cares, it's going to create a tourism boom and bring money. Pat Robertson and his group are spending $60 million creating a Christian theme/amusement park overlooking the Kinneret. The government of Israel is giving them the land, FOR FREE!!!! It's nuts!

update on the Mount Zion deal;

http://www.isfsp.org/updates.html

B"H it is not happening!

Here is my latest diatribe on Arutzsheva
http://arutzsheva.com/article.php3?id=5783

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If we go with: "After all Yaacov has been negotiating with Esav from the very beginning. Esav has been bigger and Yaacov has had to offer gifts and tip toe around. With that in mind; should we part with the property?" where will it end? Should we give up Har Tzeeyon to the church?! Why? Have they been so kind to us over the generations? We just gave up our yishuvim in Gaza to appease the world and the Palestinians. Did it help us in any way? Perhaps the US and Europe like us a little more for a short time. Did the Palestinian terrorists stop shooting at us? Doesn't look like it to me. Years ago Shimon Peres was talking about giving Kever Rachel to the Palestinians. He doesn't seem to have much feeling for Jewish history or what is sacred to us. Former Prime Minister Ehud Barak was getting ready to give up most of Yehuda and Shomron and essentially go back to the 1949 armistice lines. Luckily Arafat wanted more than that and wouldn't agree. There are halachos about what and when you can give up land in Eretz Yisrael. I once heard Rav Hershel Schachter say that if you're certain to lose there's no chiyuv to fight that particular battle. That doesn't appear to be the case here. It seems to me that we are certainly putting ourselves in greater jeopardy by ceding more land. Imagine the precedent if we give up Har Tzeeyon. We can give up anything. The Old City? Sure. Take it. Chevron? Sure. Take it. Yehuda and Shomron? Why not - we gave up Har Tzeeyon. What else would you like? The kotel? Why not? As it is the Waqf is destroying more remains of the Beit Hamikdash with Israel's acquiescence. Maybe you'd like the whole of Eretz Yisrael. Just leave us the tachana merkazit. I am happy to hear that Shas is taking a stand. They were never very stalwart in defending keeping land and fighting for territory in the past.

SamK

I believe we shouldn't give up an inch. But then, we've got politicians, not statesmen. Where it all will end, who knows. The politics of Israel are so screwed up...what's new. It's beginning to sound like the Hasmonean days.