A discussion came up from the foundation of a different matter in which I am seeking additional thoughts on exactly who is hurt most by any lack in properly educating a child in performance of the mizvah of Kibud Av v'Em.

The starting point of the discussion actually comes from the nature of Hezek Re'eie - damaging seeing - such as when a person's private space in a courtyard is visible to a neighbor, from the first mishna in Bava Basra first perek.

The Rosh comments that when 2 partners dissolve their partnership owning of a courtyard and agree to divide the courtyard, if they initially forgive their respective damage, that this is forgiving a monetary debt from the other to pay for the side of the wall (which they are agreeing to not build) - the side of the wall which would be on their side of the boundary line in the middle.

If either one regrets the lack of wall, for example wants to put an end to the ongoing damage of lack of privacy, if they try to require the neighbor to contribute to the wall, that they are stealing, just as if trying to collect upon a forgiven debt.

This is a proof that Hezek Re'eie is not a regular type of damage for which one always has a right to put a stop to.

This led to the discussion of who is in fact damaged by someone seeing another in their private space dressed insufficiently for public viewing...

Is it the one being viewed who is damaged, even if he doesn't know about it, since the viewer may now not look at the viewee the same way even when dressed properly for a public place?

Or is it the viewer who is damaged, since they cannot see the viewee in the same way as before it happened?

Which led to some guidance that if a parent is not careful about children only seeing them properly dressed for the circumstances - which may in fact include seeing them dressed appropriately for swimming when swimming - that such children may end up not showing proper respect to their parent.

Hence my question - who is damaged more in such a case, the parent, who has to endure a less than perfectly respectful child? Or a child who has lackings in chinuch that there is insufficient training in showing respect? Or yet perhaps it is the parent yet again who sees the subsequent pain of an adult who is a product of improper training?

In the case of Loshon Hara - hurtful speech - we say that the speaker's merits transfer to the one hurt by the speech, presumably as compensation for that hurt... and that irony is a comfort.

Recognizing then the medium term (disrespectful young child) and long term (alienation experienced by a disrespectful adult) effects, I cannot see this damage as something which could be remedied by a transfer of anything from viewer to viewee, nor vice versa.

Hence it is a tragic result without any comforting solution.

Please post comments beginning with other than:
"Keep your shirt on!" as this is more of a philosophical than emotional quest.

I am not sure I totally understand you. Nowadays, it seems, that everyone is under surveilance and there is no privacy left in this world. My parents never gave it any mind how I dressed and I have the utmost respect for them.

In regards to Lashon Hara, just saying something that everyone disagrees with could be labeled that way, as if it were a modernday witch hunt. Is that philosophical enough for you, Rob?

quote:

My parents never gave it any mind how I dressed

Sorry if I was not clear - the rabbi was talking about the parent not being properly dressed in front of children resulting in a child not having proper respect for the parent.

It works both ways. What is being properly dressed? It is all relative to the culture you are living in. Should a mother not breastfeed her baby because she would be exposing herself? Or would it be better if she lived in another state, where her children could not see her at all?

When I say properly dressed, I refer to the community standards and the halachic obligations.

In private a mother should of course nurse her babies. How old of a weaned child can be and still be in the room without there being a problem is another question for which I'm curious how others have worked it out.